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Old 01-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Matt Turner
 
Default gentoo-x86 commit in sys-libs/glibc: glibc-2.14.1-r2.ebuild glibc-2.12.2.ebuild glibc-9999.ebuild glibc-2.15.ebuild glibc-2.10.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.ebuild glibc-2.13-r2.ebuild ChangeLog g

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Duncan <1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> wrote:
> Mike Frysinger posted on Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:00:52 -0500 as excerpted:
>
>> On Wednesday 18 January 2012 21:42:14 Michael Weber wrote:
>>> Um, what happend to the policy to not f*** around with stable ebuilds?
>>
>> take a chill pill phil
>>
>>> I see a violation of this rule at least on [glibc-]2.13-r4, which
>>> leads to useless rebuilds on `emerge -avuND world` on every single
>>> gentoo install world-wide.
>>
>> i don't have too much compassion for -N. *if people really care enough
>> about it, they'd read the ChangeLog and see that it is meaningless.
>
> Considering glibc was just one of some 200-ish packages I rebuilt early
> today due to -N, most of the rest being kde-4.7.97 (aka 4.8-rc2) which
> will be in-overlay for just a few more days as 4.8-release is due next
> week, because gentoo/kde just removed the long-masked kdeenablefinal USE
> flag, which because it was masked (and I didn't unmask it) did NOT affect
> my kde as installed so I basically did the rebuild for nothing...

Paragraphs like these are why I have such a hard time reading your
entire emails. :P
 
Old 01-20-2012, 05:28 PM
Hilco Wijbenga
 
Default gentoo-x86 commit in sys-libs/glibc: glibc-2.14.1-r2.ebuild glibc-2.12.2.ebuild glibc-9999.ebuild glibc-2.15.ebuild glibc-2.10.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.ebuild glibc-2.13-r2.ebuild ChangeLog g

On 19 January 2012 09:22, Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 01/19/2012 05:56 AM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 12:37 AM, Duncan<1i5t5.duncan@cox.net> *wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike Frysinger posted on Wed, 18 Jan 2012 22:00:52 -0500 as excerpted:
>>>
>>>> On Wednesday 18 January 2012 21:42:14 Michael Weber wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, what happend to the policy to not f*** around with stable ebuilds?
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> I think there is a legitimate issue with changing dependencies on
>> stable ebuilds. *If for whatever reason a mistake is made, you just
>> broke tons of stable systems - especially if people rebuild with -N.
>> The idea is that stuff goes through testing before it hits stable,
>> which is why we call it stable. *If you change stable directly, then
>> it isn't stable. *
>
>
> Care certainly needs to be taken. However, for things like eclass changes,
> there may be no choice but to modify the metadata of all eclass consumers
> (regardless of stable keywords).
>
>
>>>>
>>>>> I see a violation of this rule at least on [glibc-]2.13-r4, which
>>>>> leads to useless rebuilds on `emerge -avuND world` on every single
>>>>> gentoo install world-wide.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> i don't have too much compassion for -N. *if people really care enough
>>>> about it, they'd read the ChangeLog and see that it is meaningless.
>>
>>
>> Until somebody posts a definitive list of which features we have
>> compassion on, and which ones we don't, we should have compassion on
>> anybody using standard portage features. *It seems like when things go
>> wrong with somebody's box the knee-jerk reaction is to say "well, you
>> should be running daily emerge -alphabetsoup world" where alphabetsoup
>> tends to vary by individual preference. *I do recall some talk a few
>> months ago about how it might not hurt to come up with a
>> best-practices suggestion for doing regular upgrades, but it hasn't
>> happened yet. *I'm pretty sure -N was one of the items that was tossed
>> around as a best practice.
>
>
>
> The fact is, the user is not being forced to rebuild anything. They can
> simply run full system updates with --newuse less often if it puts too much
> strain on them. It holds back progress for everyone if developers have to
> try to avoid making changes that trigger --newuse rebuilds.
>
>
>> I'm more concerned about the tendency to introduce flags in our
>> package manager, have them get promoted in various forums, and then
>> have people more-or-less rebuked for using them. *There is no problem
>> in having flags that shouldn't be routinely used, but man pages and
>> such should clearly indicate when this is the case (as is the case
>> with --unmerge and so on). *If we don't warn people not to use a flag,
>> we shouldn't punish them when they do.
>
> It's only perceived as punishment to a person who is compelled to run a full
> system update with --newuse, but is unhappy with the number of packages it
> will cause to be rebuilt. As said, they can run updates less often if it's
> too much strain.

I'd like to chime in here. I started a thread on gentoo-user (Portage
option "--changed-use" not working?) pretty much about this.

I use --changed-use instead of --newuse to get the advantages of a
fully up-to-date system without the unnecessary churn. From the man
page I understand that (part of) the idea behind --changed-use is to
*not* rebuild packages where an unused/disabled USE flag is dropped.
Which ought to apply to kdeenablefinal, right?

It seems my understanding is incorrect because I see --new-use +
--exclude is being recommended, not --changed-use. Would somebody
please set me straight?
 
Old 01-20-2012, 07:31 PM
Zac Medico
 
Default gentoo-x86 commit in sys-libs/glibc: glibc-2.14.1-r2.ebuild glibc-2.12.2.ebuild glibc-9999.ebuild glibc-2.15.ebuild glibc-2.10.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.ebuild glibc-2.13-r2.ebuild ChangeLog g

On 01/20/2012 10:28 AM, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> I'd like to chime in here. I started a thread on gentoo-user (Portage
> option "--changed-use" not working?) pretty much about this.
>
> I use --changed-use instead of --newuse to get the advantages of a
> fully up-to-date system without the unnecessary churn. From the man
> page I understand that (part of) the idea behind --changed-use is to
> *not* rebuild packages where an unused/disabled USE flag is dropped.
> Which ought to apply to kdeenablefinal, right?
>
> It seems my understanding is incorrect because I see --new-use +
> --exclude is being recommended, not --changed-use. Would somebody
> please set me straight?

You've found a bug. It's fixed in git now:

http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=a77292d37e3c2604479514abed2 dda64dabace25

As a workaround, you can add --binpkg-respect-use=n to your options.
--
Thanks,
Zac
 
Old 01-20-2012, 08:12 PM
Hilco Wijbenga
 
Default gentoo-x86 commit in sys-libs/glibc: glibc-2.14.1-r2.ebuild glibc-2.12.2.ebuild glibc-9999.ebuild glibc-2.15.ebuild glibc-2.10.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.ebuild glibc-2.13-r2.ebuild ChangeLog g

On 20 January 2012 12:31, Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 01/20/2012 10:28 AM, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
>> I'd like to chime in here. I started a thread on gentoo-user (Portage
>> option "--changed-use" not working?) pretty much about this.
>>
>> I use --changed-use instead of --newuse to get the advantages of a
>> fully up-to-date system without the unnecessary churn. From the man
>> page I understand that (part of) the idea behind --changed-use is to
>> *not* rebuild packages where an unused/disabled USE flag is dropped.
>> Which ought to apply to kdeenablefinal, right?
>>
>> It seems my understanding is incorrect because I see --new-use +
>> --exclude is being recommended, not --changed-use. Would somebody
>> please set me straight?

You prefer/recommend --new-use + --exclude over --changed-use?

> You've found a bug. It's fixed in git now:
>
> http://git.overlays.gentoo.org/gitweb/?p=proj/portage.git;a=commit;h=a77292d37e3c2604479514abed2 dda64dabace25
>
> As a workaround, you can add --binpkg-respect-use=n to your options.

Sweet, thanks!
 
Old 01-20-2012, 08:20 PM
Zac Medico
 
Default gentoo-x86 commit in sys-libs/glibc: glibc-2.14.1-r2.ebuild glibc-2.12.2.ebuild glibc-9999.ebuild glibc-2.15.ebuild glibc-2.10.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.ebuild glibc-2.13-r2.ebuild ChangeLog g

On 01/20/2012 01:12 PM, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
> On 20 January 2012 12:31, Zac Medico <zmedico@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On 01/20/2012 10:28 AM, Hilco Wijbenga wrote:
>>> I'd like to chime in here. I started a thread on gentoo-user (Portage
>>> option "--changed-use" not working?) pretty much about this.
>>>
>>> I use --changed-use instead of --newuse to get the advantages of a
>>> fully up-to-date system without the unnecessary churn. From the man
>>> page I understand that (part of) the idea behind --changed-use is to
>>> *not* rebuild packages where an unused/disabled USE flag is dropped.
>>> Which ought to apply to kdeenablefinal, right?
>>>
>>> It seems my understanding is incorrect because I see --new-use +
>>> --exclude is being recommended, not --changed-use. Would somebody
>>> please set me straight?
>
> You prefer/recommend --new-use + --exclude over --changed-use?

It depends on your goal, because the results are different.
--
Thanks,
Zac
 
Old 01-20-2012, 09:50 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default gentoo-x86 commit in sys-libs/glibc: glibc-2.14.1-r2.ebuild glibc-2.12.2.ebuild glibc-9999.ebuild glibc-2.15.ebuild glibc-2.10.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.1-r1.ebuild glibc-2.14.ebuild glibc-2.13-r2.ebuild ChangeLog g

On Friday 20 January 2012 07:49:07 Rich Freeman wrote:
> Perhaps this is worth its own thread, as this one is already drifting
> way off topic.

i don't mind thread drift too much as it often times results in good things in
related areas. in this case, i think we've had good fallout.
-mike
 

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