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-   -   RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration (http://www.linux-archive.org/gentoo-development/617764-rfc-news-item-sys-apps-systemd-usr-migration.html)

Michał Górny 01-05-2012 10:52 PM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
Hello,

I'm going to move systemd completely to /usr soonish and thus I'd like
to submit the following news item for review. I'd appreciate any
comments and suggestions.

-- NEWS ITEM FOLLOWS --

Title: systemd /usr migration
Author: Michał Górny <mgorny@gentoo.org>
Content-Type: text/plain
Posted: 2012-01-06
Revision: 1
News-Item-Format: 1.0
Display-If-Installed: sys-apps/systemd

We have decided to move our systemd installation into /usr prefix.
After the upgrade, the main systemd executable will be installed
as /usr/bin/systemd and the unit files will be installed
to /usr/lib/systemd; however, systemd will still look for unit files
in the /lib location.

For this reason, a new revisions of all systemd versions have been
added to the tree and all users are advised to upgrade ASAP to make
the transition as painless as possible. To achieve that, the following
steps have been taken:

1) the new systemd versions install and enable a path monitoring helper
which automatically updates /etc/systemd symlinks when unit files
are moved from /lib to /usr/lib;

2) the systemd.eclass will block older versions of systemd to ensure
that the service files aren't installed in the new location before
the helper service is in place;

3) a symlink is installed at /bin/systemd to ensure that current init=
specifications are still valid.

Please note that these features will be removed after the transitional
period and users upgrading afterwards will have to manually ensure
correctness of their installations. The former two features will be
removed on 2012-03-01, the last one on 2012-05-01.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Philip Webb 01-05-2012 10:59 PM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
120106 Michał Górny wrote:
> I'm going to move systemd completely to /usr soonish
> and thus I'd like to submit the following news item for review.
> I'd appreciate any comments and suggestions.
> -- NEWS ITEM FOLLOWS --
...
> For this reason, a new revisions of all systemd versions have been
^^ delete (plural follows)
> added to the tree and all users are advised to upgrade ASAP to make
> the transition as painless as possible ...

--
========================,,======================== ====================
SUPPORT ___________//___, Philip Webb
ELECTRIC /] [] [] [] [] []| Cities Centre, University of Toronto
TRANSIT `-O----------O---' purslowatchassdotutorontodotca

Alexandre Rostovtsev 01-06-2012 12:29 AM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
On Fri, 2012-01-06 at 00:52 +0100, Michał Górny wrote:
> 3) a symlink is installed at /bin/systemd to ensure that current init=
> specifications are still valid.
>
> Please note that these features will be removed after the transitional
> period and users upgrading afterwards will have to manually ensure
> correctness of their installations. The former two features will be
> removed on 2012-03-01, the last one on 2012-05-01.

Positive effects of removing the /bin/systemd symlink on 2021-05-01:
saves one inode in the root fs.

Negative effects of removing the /bin/systemd symlink on 2021-05-01: an
unknown number of users who had forgotten to update their grub.conf will
discover that they can no longer boot their systems.

I would suggest not removing the symlink unless there is a technical
reason why its presence is undesirable.

-Alexandre.

Olivier Crte 01-06-2012 01:03 AM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
Hi,

On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 20:29 -0500, Alexandre Rostovtsev wrote:
> Negative effects of removing the /bin/systemd symlink on 2021-05-01: an
> unknown number of users who had forgotten to update their grub.conf will
> discover that they can no longer boot their systems.
>
> I would suggest not removing the symlink unless there is a technical
> reason why its presence is undesirable.

Doing aggressive migrations like that should really be avoided.. But we
know that the real long term solution is to have a /bin -> /usr/bin
symlink.


--
Olivier Crte
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer

Michał Górny 01-06-2012 08:25 AM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:29:53 -0500
Alexandre Rostovtsev <tetromino@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 2012-01-06 at 00:52 +0100, Michał Górny wrote:
> > 3) a symlink is installed at /bin/systemd to ensure that current
> > init= specifications are still valid.
> >
> > Please note that these features will be removed after the
> > transitional period and users upgrading afterwards will have to
> > manually ensure correctness of their installations. The former two
> > features will be removed on 2012-03-01, the last one on 2012-05-01.
>
> Positive effects of removing the /bin/systemd symlink on 2021-05-01:
> saves one inode in the root fs.
>
> Negative effects of removing the /bin/systemd symlink on 2021-05-01:
> an unknown number of users who had forgotten to update their
> grub.conf will discover that they can no longer boot their systems.
>
> I would suggest not removing the symlink unless there is a technical
> reason why its presence is undesirable.

The symlink is distro-specific. Honestly, I'd get rid of it sooner --
but almost four months seem to be a safe period considering that we
are still in 'testing' stage mostly.

I'll add greps for the few common config files and 'ps' check in the
ebuild after the migration. I can also add a 'die' after that date.

Keeping backwards compatibility files for the lifetime is never a good
solution. It just makes users lazy, and right now using systemd under
Gentoo requires some abilities anyway.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Duncan 01-06-2012 08:28 AM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
Olivier Crte posted on Thu, 05 Jan 2012 21:03:32 -0500 as excerpted:

> Hi,
>
> On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 20:29 -0500, Alexandre Rostovtsev wrote:
>> Negative effects of removing the /bin/systemd symlink on 2021-05-01: an
>> unknown number of users who had forgotten to update their grub.conf
>> will discover that they can no longer boot their systems.
>>
>> I would suggest not removing the symlink unless there is a technical
>> reason why its presence is undesirable.
>
> Doing aggressive migrations like that should really be avoided.. But we
> know that the real long term solution is to have a /bin -> /usr/bin
> symlink.

I'm not a systemd user, but I did see his gentoo planet entry on the
topic, which explains why he's moving this fast.

http://blogs.gentoo.org/mgorny/2012/01/04/moving-systemd-into-usr-the-technical-side/

In it he said he wished he'd introduced systemd with everything on /usr in
the first place. He sees the mistake now, and prefers to correct it while
the fewest gentoo users possible are yet using systemd. As few are using
it at this time and that number is likely to grow over time, only making
the transition harder, he's moving much faster with the change than he'd
ordinarily move.

Keep in mind that at present, systemd has no stable keywords at all, and
only amd64 and x86 in ~arch. For gentooers anyway systemd is thus still
beta, and he's choosing to move stuff around now while that's still the
case, instead of later, after stabilization. Those gentooers using it now
are early adopters by definition, and should be ready to deal with this
sort of stuff.

Given that, the March and June timeframes are IMO PLENTY. IMO, even a
mere 30 days would be reasonable for a package at this stage in the
process, and he's running a news item and giving them WAY more than that.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

Ian Stakenvicius 01-06-2012 02:31 PM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 06/01/12 04:28 AM, Duncan wrote:
> Olivier Crte posted on Thu, 05 Jan 2012 21:03:32 -0500 as
> excerpted:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, 2012-01-05 at 20:29 -0500, Alexandre Rostovtsev wrote:
>>> Negative effects of removing the /bin/systemd symlink on
>>> 2021-05-01: an unknown number of users who had forgotten to
>>> update their grub.conf will discover that they can no longer
>>> boot their systems.
>>>
>>> I would suggest not removing the symlink unless there is a
>>> technical reason why its presence is undesirable.
>>
>> Doing aggressive migrations like that should really be avoided..
>> But we know that the real long term solution is to have a /bin ->
>> /usr/bin symlink.
>
> I'm not a systemd user, but I did see his gentoo planet entry on
> the topic, which explains why he's moving this fast.
>
> http://blogs.gentoo.org/mgorny/2012/01/04/moving-systemd-into-usr-the-technical-side/
>
> In it he said he wished he'd introduced systemd with everything on
> /usr in the first place. He sees the mistake now, and prefers to
> correct it while the fewest gentoo users possible are yet using
> systemd. As few are using it at this time and that number is
> likely to grow over time, only making the transition harder, he's
> moving much faster with the change than he'd ordinarily move.

If that's the case, why not force the breakage now and not install a
symlink??

Maybe make this particular systemd update an interactive ebuild if
it's replacing an older version of itself, so it forces users to
actually stop, read, and take action when they do the upgrade?

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Michał Górny 01-06-2012 02:46 PM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
On Fri, 06 Jan 2012 10:31:14 -0500
Ian Stakenvicius <axs@gentoo.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA256
>
> On 06/01/12 04:28 AM, Duncan wrote:
> > In it he said he wished he'd introduced systemd with everything on
> > /usr in the first place. He sees the mistake now, and prefers to
> > correct it while the fewest gentoo users possible are yet using
> > systemd. As few are using it at this time and that number is
> > likely to grow over time, only making the transition harder, he's
> > moving much faster with the change than he'd ordinarily move.
>
> If that's the case, why not force the breakage now and not install a
> symlink??
>
> Maybe make this particular systemd update an interactive ebuild if
> it's replacing an older version of itself, so it forces users to
> actually stop, read, and take action when they do the upgrade?

What if user thinks he/she's got the init= update right while, say,
forgets to call 'lilo'? Forcing the breakage would mean systemd will
fail to boot. Delaying it will just make user see 'you didn't update
init=' one more time.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny

Donnie Berkholz 01-10-2012 06:49 PM

RFC: news item for sys-apps/systemd -> /usr migration
 
On 10:25 Fri 06 Jan , Michał Górny wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 20:29:53 -0500
> Alexandre Rostovtsev <tetromino@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I would suggest not removing the symlink unless there is a technical
> > reason why its presence is undesirable.
>
> The symlink is distro-specific. Honestly, I'd get rid of it sooner --
> but almost four months seem to be a safe period considering that we
> are still in 'testing' stage mostly.

So other systemd-using distros have it in /usr? I'd follow their
convention.

--
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Council Member / Sr. Developer
Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.com


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