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Old 06-29-2011, 05:48 AM
Nirbheek Chauhan
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 00:04:57 Michał Górny wrote:
>> Honestly, I think a better solution would be to provide a convenience
>> function library, independent of OpenRC. Sourcing random internal
>> scripts of a random package is just broken by concept.
>
> except it hasnt been random and has clearly been defined by having existed
> since the beginning of Gentoo
>

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.


--
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:07 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 01:48:16 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 00:04:57 Michał Górny wrote:
> >> Honestly, I think a better solution would be to provide a convenience
> >> function library, independent of OpenRC. Sourcing random internal
> >> scripts of a random package is just broken by concept.
> >
> > except it hasnt been random and has clearly been defined by having
> > existed since the beginning of Gentoo
>
> I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

/etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was long ago
decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts external to baselayout
(as opposed to a path in /sbin/). it isnt going anywhere, and painting it as
something in flux at this point is disingenuous.
-mike
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:12 AM
Nirbheek Chauhan
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 01:48:16 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 00:04:57 Michał Górny wrote:
>> >> Honestly, I think a better solution would be to provide a convenience
>> >> function library, independent of OpenRC. Sourcing random internal
>> >> scripts of a random package is just broken by concept.
>> >
>> > except it hasnt been random and has clearly been defined by having
>> > existed since the beginning of Gentoo
>>
>> I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
>
> /etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was long ago
> decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts external to baselayout
> (as opposed to a path in /sbin/). *it isnt going anywhere, and painting it as
> something in flux at this point is disingenuous.
>

So... Gentoo's base system can never change, and hence new init
systems are not welcome. Okay. Got it.

--
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:14 AM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:07:52 -0400
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> /etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was
> long ago decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts
> external to baselayout (as opposed to a path in /sbin/). it isnt
> going anywhere, and painting it as something in flux at this point is
> disingenuous.

Is it documented and specified? If not, can it be?

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:35 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:12, Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 01:48:16 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>> > On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 00:04:57 Michał Górny wrote:
>>> >> Honestly, I think a better solution would be to provide a convenience
>>> >> function library, independent of OpenRC. Sourcing random internal
>>> >> scripts of a random package is just broken by concept.
>>> >
>>> > except it hasnt been random and has clearly been defined by having
>>> > existed since the beginning of Gentoo
>>>
>>> I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
>>
>> /etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was long ago
>> decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts external to baselayout
>> (as opposed to a path in /sbin/). *it isnt going anywhere, and painting it as
>> something in flux at this point is disingenuous.
>
> So... Gentoo's base system can never change, and hence new init
> systems are not welcome. Okay. Got it.

you really should refrain from inserting words into other people's
mouths. at no point did i ever make this statement.
-mike
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:36 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:14, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:07:52 -0400 Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> /etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was
>> long ago decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts
>> external to baselayout (as opposed to a path in /sbin/). *it isnt
>> going anywhere, and painting it as something in flux at this point is
>> disingenuous.
>
> Is it documented and specified? If not, can it be?

the file path ? or the API that it provides ?
-mike
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:38 AM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:36:05 -0400
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:14, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:07:52 -0400 Mike Frysinger wrote:
> >> /etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was
> >> long ago decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts
> >> external to baselayout (as opposed to a path in /sbin/). *it isnt
> >> going anywhere, and painting it as something in flux at this point
> >> is disingenuous.
> >
> > Is it documented and specified? If not, can it be?
>
> the file path ? or the API that it provides ?

Both. There's code in Paludis that duplicates a bunch of that stuff
simply because I wasn't sure what I could and couldn't rely upon.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:39 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

2011/6/28 Olivier Crte:
> As long as we have Gentoo-style init scripts in the tree, we will need
> these functions to be available. So yes, they should probably be in a
> separate package from openrc itself to ease the transition to the bright
> systemd future.

systemd is limited (acknowledged by its author and encoded in its
basic design) in what it supports. the set of systems that openrc
supports is significantly larger and simpler (by design). i really
cant see it being replaced by systemd.
-mike
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:41 AM
Matt Turner
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 2:12 AM, Nirbheek Chauhan <nirbheek@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 01:48:16 Nirbheek Chauhan wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:35 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
>>> > On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 00:04:57 Michał Górny wrote:
>>> >> Honestly, I think a better solution would be to provide a convenience
>>> >> function library, independent of OpenRC. Sourcing random internal
>>> >> scripts of a random package is just broken by concept.
>>> >
>>> > except it hasnt been random and has clearly been defined by having
>>> > existed since the beginning of Gentoo
>>>
>>> I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
>>
>> /etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was long ago
>> decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts external to baselayout
>> (as opposed to a path in /sbin/). *it isnt going anywhere, and painting it as
>> something in flux at this point is disingenuous.
>
> So... Gentoo's base system can never change, and hence new init
> systems are not welcome. Okay. Got it.

What is this I don't even...

Let's try this again:

Michał said "Sourcing random internal scripts of a random package is
just broken by concept."

Mike then said "except it hasnt been random and has clearly been
defined by having existed since the beginning of Gentoo" and then
further explained what he meant.

So... wtf?

Matt
 
Old 06-29-2011, 06:47 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:38, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:36:05 -0400 Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 02:14, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
>> > On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 02:07:52 -0400 Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> >> /etc/init.d/functions.sh has existed for the last decade, and was
>> >> long ago decided as the canonical public entry point for scripts
>> >> external to baselayout (as opposed to a path in /sbin/). *it isnt
>> >> going anywhere, and painting it as something in flux at this point
>> >> is disingenuous.
>> >
>> > Is it documented and specified? If not, can it be?
>>
>> the file path ? *or the API that it provides ?
>
> Both. There's code in Paludis that duplicates a bunch of that stuff
> simply because I wasn't sure what I could and couldn't rely upon.

the file should provide the classic e* output funcs that we've all
grown to love, and are now enshrined in PMS. it has had other
functions come and go over the years, but i think things have settled
on just the output helpers. was there anything other than the output
helpers you were interested in ?

i'm not sure where this could be documented other than openrc itself.
but if that appeases people, then that should be trivial to take care
of.
-mike
 

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