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Old 06-29-2011, 01:07 AM
Olivier Crête
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

Hi,

On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:10 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> The background is that /etc/init.d/functions.sh is a link to
> /lib/rc/functions.sh, which is part of openrc.
>
> Other init systems, like systemd, are coming along which completely
> replace sysvinit and do not use openrc's init scripts at all. However,
> since things other than init scripts are using /etc/init.d/functions.sh,
> all gentoo users are forced to have openrc on their systems whether they
> use its init scripts or not.
>
> As you can see in the bug, I am working on creating a
> minimalist version of openrc that can be installed to allow users to
> have access to the functions that are in functions.sh regardless of
> whether or not they are using openrc's init system.
>
> I'm not convinced that this is the best approach, so any input would be
> greatly appreciated.

As long as we have Gentoo-style init scripts in the tree, we will need
these functions to be available. So yes, they should probably be in a
separate package from openrc itself to ease the transition to the bright
systemd future.

--
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer
 
Old 06-29-2011, 02:12 AM
William Hubbs
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

Hi,

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 09:07:12PM -0400, Olivier Crête wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:10 -0500, William Hubbs wrote:
> > The background is that /etc/init.d/functions.sh is a link to
> > /lib/rc/functions.sh, which is part of openrc.
> >
> > Other init systems, like systemd, are coming along which completely
> > replace sysvinit and do not use openrc's init scripts at all. However,
> > since things other than init scripts are using /etc/init.d/functions.sh,
> > all gentoo users are forced to have openrc on their systems whether they
> > use its init scripts or not.
> >
> > As you can see in the bug, I am working on creating a
> > minimalist version of openrc that can be installed to allow users to
> > have access to the functions that are in functions.sh regardless of
> > whether or not they are using openrc's init system.
> >
> > I'm not convinced that this is the best approach, so any input would be
> > greatly appreciated.
>
> As long as we have Gentoo-style init scripts in the tree, we will need
> these functions to be available. So yes, they should probably be in a
> separate package from openrc itself to ease the transition to the bright
> systemd future.

I'm not advocating killing openrc; I think that the sysvinit/openrc
system we have is going to be our default init system for some time

It isn't init scripts that I'm worried about. The problem is
that scripts other than init scripts are using the code in
/etc/init.d/functions.sh, so some how that code, or something similar to
it needs to be available on systems so that someone, like yourself, who
is not using openrc, can run "emerge --unmerge sysvinit openrc" and have
a working system. Right now, things like revdep-rebuild and eix will
break if you remove openrc.

For the short term I can see it as a subset of openrc, but ultimately I
think if you aren't using openrc's init system it should not be required
on your system.

Any other thoughts?

William
 
Old 06-29-2011, 04:04 AM
Michał Górny
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Tue, 28 Jun 2011 17:10:42 -0500
William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:

> the reason for this email is
> http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=373219 and the bugs that
> currently depend on it. I'm sure there will be more of those.
>
> The background is that /etc/init.d/functions.sh is a link to
> /lib/rc/functions.sh, which is part of openrc.
>
> Other init systems, like systemd, are coming along which completely
> replace sysvinit and do not use openrc's init scripts at all. However,
> since things other than init scripts are
> using /etc/init.d/functions.sh, all gentoo users are forced to have
> openrc on their systems whether they use its init scripts or not.
>
> As you can see in the bug, I am working on creating a
> minimalist version of openrc that can be installed to allow users to
> have access to the functions that are in functions.sh regardless of
> whether or not they are using openrc's init system.
>
> I'm not convinced that this is the best approach, so any input would
> be greatly appreciated.

Honestly, I think a better solution would be to provide a convenience
function library, independent of OpenRC. Sourcing random internal
scripts of a random package is just broken by concept.

Say, if OpenRC decided to switch into some kind of internal output
flow, einfo and friends would stop working for all those external
scripts.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 06-29-2011, 05:05 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default rfc: should openrc be mandatory on all gentoo systems?

On Wednesday, June 29, 2011 00:04:57 Michał Górny wrote:
> Honestly, I think a better solution would be to provide a convenience
> function library, independent of OpenRC. Sourcing random internal
> scripts of a random package is just broken by concept.

except it hasnt been random and has clearly been defined by having existed
since the beginning of Gentoo

> Say, if OpenRC decided to switch into some kind of internal output
> flow, einfo and friends would stop working for all those external
> scripts.

this idea is pure ridiculousness
-mike
 

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