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Old 05-30-2011, 10:05 PM
"Andreas K. Huettel"
 
Default Common sense in (was Council May Summary: Changes to ChangeLog handling)

Am Montag 30 Mai 2011, 23:55:52 schrieb Brian Harring:
> If someone has a definition that is commonsense, then propose it- the
> current "you must log everything" is very, very heavy handed and
> basically was a forced situation since QA cannot make folks behave
> when the rules are reliant on common sense.

Well how about "any change that can influence the behaviour of (portage|your
favourite package manager) in any way or present the user with different
output"?

Clearly rules out whitespace changes.

Small typos in text messages might be seen as a (harmless) borderline case.

Removal of an ebuild definitely can influence portage behaviour, as can f.ex.
an EAPI bump.

Thoughts?

--

Andreas K. Huettel
Gentoo Linux developer
dilfridge@gentoo.org
http://www.akhuettel.de/
 
Old 05-30-2011, 10:14 PM
Diego Elio Pettenò
 
Default Common sense in (was Council May Summary: Changes to ChangeLog handling)

Il giorno mar, 31/05/2011 alle 00.05 +0200, Andreas K. Huettel ha
scritto:
>
> Thoughts?

LGTM
--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
 
Old 05-30-2011, 11:38 PM
Brian Harring
 
Default Common sense in (was Council May Summary: Changes to ChangeLog handling)

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:05:03AM +0200, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> Am Montag 30 Mai 2011, 23:55:52 schrieb Brian Harring:
> > If someone has a definition that is commonsense, then propose it- the
> > current "you must log everything" is very, very heavy handed and
> > basically was a forced situation since QA cannot make folks behave
> > when the rules are reliant on common sense.
>
> Well how about "any change that can influence the behaviour of (portage|your
> favourite package manager) in any way or present the user with different
> output"?

Mostly correct, although the problem there is 'influence'; consider:

src_unpack() {
bunch of code
}

being changed into

new_func() {
bunch of code
}
src_unpack() {
invoke new_func
}

That should have no influence, thus not being ChangeLog'd. The
problem is when the dev screws up, and it *has* an influence but no
ChangeLog.

A more real world example is people abusing eval and other things
(python eclass for example)- folks can/do argue that it has no
influence, but the complexity means it may have unexpected affect.

That's the crux of the issue, and it comes down to common sense.
Come up w/ a sane policy for things like that and I'll owe you some
beer.

Either way, for the rest of it, as Diego said, LGTM. I'm just
nitpicking here to make it absolutely clear to people where we start
running into policy issues.

~brian
 
Old 05-31-2011, 12:01 AM
ngelo Arrifano
 
Default Common sense in (was Council May Summary: Changes to ChangeLog handling)

On Tuesday 31 May 2011 00:38:34 Brian Harring wrote:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 12:05:03AM +0200, Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> > Am Montag 30 Mai 2011, 23:55:52 schrieb Brian Harring:
> > > If someone has a definition that is commonsense, then propose it- the
> > > current "you must log everything" is very, very heavy handed and
> > > basically was a forced situation since QA cannot make folks behave
> > > when the rules are reliant on common sense.
> >
> > Well how about "any change that can influence the behaviour of
> > (portage|your favourite package manager) in any way or present the user
> > with different output"?
>
> Mostly correct, although the problem there is 'influence'; consider:
>
> src_unpack() {
> bunch of code
> }
>
> being changed into
>
> new_func() {
> bunch of code
> }
> src_unpack() {
> invoke new_func
> }
>
> That should have no influence, thus not being ChangeLog'd. The
> problem is when the dev screws up, and it *has* an influence but no
> ChangeLog.
>
> A more real world example is people abusing eval and other things
> (python eclass for example)- folks can/do argue that it has no
> influence, but the complexity means it may have unexpected affect.
>
> That's the crux of the issue, and it comes down to common sense.
> Come up w/ a sane policy for things like that and I'll owe you some
> beer.
>
> Either way, for the rest of it, as Diego said, LGTM. I'm just
> nitpicking here to make it absolutely clear to people where we start
> running into policy issues.
>
> ~brian

Not disagreeing at all with what was said, I'm just going to add that adding
conditionals or exceptions to the rules makes them harder to remember. It is
easier to remember - you shall not pass - than - you shall not pass if you
make a change wich does not affect X - .

Regards,
--
Angelo Arrifano AKA MiKNiX
Gentoo Embedded developer
GPE maintainer
http://www.gentoo.org/~miknix
http://miknix.homelinux.com
 

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