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Old 05-23-2011, 02:37 PM
Jeroen Roovers
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

On Mon, 23 May 2011 10:26:49 -0400
"Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:

> If yes, what's the procedure?

Add the global one to use.desc.

Then remove the local ones from their respective metadata.xml files.
use.local.desc will be adjusted accordingly in time - no need to hurry.

> We'd have to have a lot of
> metadata.xml's change. I'm not sure what happens if you
> simultaneously have a local and global USE flag by the same name
> (although I'm going to test in a minute on an overlay

They can happily coexist. No need to remove them simultaneously.


Regards,
jer
 
Old 05-23-2011, 02:48 PM
Ulrich Mueller
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2011, Anthony G Basile wrote:

> I was looking at use.desc/use.local.desc to see if the "server" flag is
> global or not. I was surprised to see that it is not. There are 26
> packages that use a local "server" flag and they all say something to
> the effect "Enable ${PN} server support".

From <http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags/>:

| If the effect of the USE flag upon pkg-one is substantially
| different from the effect it has upon pkg-two, then the flag is not
| a suitable candidate for being made a global flag. In particular,
| note that if client and server USE flags are ever introduced, they
| can not be global USE flags for this reason.

Ulrich
 
Old 05-23-2011, 03:10 PM
"Anthony G. Basile"
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

On 05/23/2011 10:48 AM, Ulrich Mueller wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2011, Anthony G Basile wrote:
>> I was looking at use.desc/use.local.desc to see if the "server" flag is
>> global or not. I was surprised to see that it is not. There are 26
>> packages that use a local "server" flag and they all say something to
>> the effect "Enable ${PN} server support".
> From <http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags/>:
>
> | If the effect of the USE flag upon pkg-one is substantially
> | different from the effect it has upon pkg-two, then the flag is not
> | a suitable candidate for being made a global flag. In particular,
> | note that if client and server USE flags are ever introduced, they
> | can not be global USE flags for this reason.
>
> Ulrich
>

My point was that the "server" flag has the *same* effect on all these
packages, ie to turn on their server support. But the point was made on
#gentoo-dev that what is a server for one package is not the same as a
server for another package. Thinking along those lines, the "server"
flag has a *different* effect on each package.

Reflecting on this, the stricter definition makes more sense, so I
retract my point.

--
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 8040 5A4D 8709 21B1 1A88 33CE 979C AF40 D045 5535
GnuPG ID : D0455535
 
Old 05-23-2011, 03:19 PM
Jeroen Roovers
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

On Mon, 23 May 2011 10:26:49 -0400
"Anthony G. Basile" <blueness@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I was looking at use.desc/use.local.desc to see if the "server" flag
> is global or not. I was surprised to see that it is not. There are
> 26 packages that use a local "server" flag and they all say something
> to the effect "Enable ${PN} server support".
>
> Should we not promote this to global with a description
>
> server - Enable the packages server component

app-admin/bcfg2:server - Installs scripts to be used on the server-side
of this app
- If it means, to install a server and scripts, then YES. It should be
clarified what this flag actually does install as extra.

app-mobilephone/obexd:server - Enables server installation, it's
incompatible with obex-data-server
provided one
- Is it really really necessary to describe that incompatibility? If
no, YES.

app-office/akonadi-server:server - Use locally installed database
server.
- Again, what does it mean? Does it install the database server too? If
yes, YES, but again the description would need to be changed or
omitted.

dev-libs/tntnet:server - Enable tntnet server daemon
- YES.

dev-python/dap:server - Enable OpenDAP server support
- YES if it actually installs a server/daemon.

dev-ruby/rubygems:server - Install support for the rubygems server
- YES if it actually installs a server/daemon.

dev-vcs/cvs:server - Enable server support
- YES if it actually installs a server/daemon.

games-strategy/wesnoth:server - Enable compilation of server
- YES: if it compiles it, then it installs a server/daemon.

media-plugins/vdr-streamdev:server - Compile the VDR plugin
vdr-streamdev-server that allows
remote systems to access the DVB
cards used for the local VDR
- YES if it actually installs a server/daemon, but the description is
rather more informative than "enable server component" would be.

media-sound/xmms2:server - Build xmms2 player daemon (otherwise only
clients are built)
- YES: it actually installs a server/daemon. That clients will be built
regardless of this USE flag is irrelevant.

net-analyzer/zabbix:server - Enable zabbix server
- YES if it actually installs a server/daemon.

net-fs/coda:server - Build and install the server components of coda
filesystem. Note: at least one of client/server flags must be enabled.
- YES if it actually installs a server/daemon. REQUIRED_USE should
replace the need to force either server or client in USE flags.

net-fs/samba:server - Enables the server part
- YES.

net-irc/quassel:server - Build the server binary. If this USE flag is
disabled, the 'core' server binary for quassel is not built, and cannot
be used. You need this enabled on the server, but you might want to
disable it on the client.
- YES. Lots of irrelevant information after the first sentence. If you
want to explain how to use the ebuild or installed package, then
write some real documentation and put it on the website.

net-libs/libinfinity:server - Build and install the server binary
including init.d/conf.d-scripts. Needed if you want to host an infinote
server for gobby.
- YES. Again write some documentation instead of abusing a USE flag
description to explain how the package works.

net-libs/libssh:server - Build with SSH server support
- YES if it actually installs a server/daemon. It's not clear whether
this just means it compiles in server components into the library it
installs.

net-libs/wt:server - Compile in stand-alone httpd connector
- Looks like a YES.

net-misc/dhcp:server - Install the dhcpd and dhcrelay programs
- YES.

net-misc/knock:server - Installs the knockd server daemon.
- YES.

net-misc/tigervnc:server - Build TigerVNC server
- YES.

net-misc/tightvnc:server - Build vncserver. Allows us to only build
server on one machine if set, build only viewer otherwise.
- YES. Again, write the HOWTO instead of abusing a USE flag description.

sci-biology/ucsc-genome-browser:server - Install genome browser Web
application. If this flag is
off, only libraries and
utilities from the suite are
installed.
- It isn't clear, but would probably boil down to a YES. The second
sentence is irrelevant in the context.

sci-mathematics/yacas:server - Build the network server version
- Build the version? You mean build the daemon? If so, YES.

sys-cluster/pvfs2:server - Enable compilation of server code
- Server code? If it builds and installs a daemon, then YES.

sys-cluster/torque:server - Enable compilation of pbs_server and
pbs_sched.
- YES.

sys-fs/owfs:server - Enable building the OWFS server (owserver)
- YES.

(I find myself wondering why so much information is being jammed into
USE flag descriptions that /should/ be available in HOWTOs from
upstream, or else should be written down in HOWTOs we maintain
ourselves - we (Gentoo) used to be good at providing HOWTOs as needed
and it's a good tradition to keep up. It helps the entire open source
community and not just our users, too.)

Anyway, count the YESs above. Maybe some people want to
comment/explain/defend how they wrote their descriptions, so don't
touch them just yet.


jer
 
Old 05-23-2011, 03:24 PM
Pacho Ramos
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

El lun, 23-05-2011 a las 17:19 +0200, Jeroen Roovers escribiˇ:
[...]
> app-mobilephone/obexd:server - Enables server installation, it's
> incompatible with obex-data-server
> provided one
> - Is it really really necessary to describe that incompatibility? If
> no, YES.
>

I want that description as-is to prevent some people thinking
obexd[server] should be used instead of obex-data-server even if all
stuff still needs obex-data-server and that one is incompatible with
obexd one.
 
Old 05-23-2011, 04:27 PM
Dale
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

Jeroen Roovers wrote:


(I find myself wondering why so much information is being jammed into
USE flag descriptions that /should/ be available in HOWTOs from
upstream, or else should be written down in HOWTOs we maintain
ourselves - we (Gentoo) used to be good at providing HOWTOs as needed
and it's a good tradition to keep up. It helps the entire open source
community and not just our users, too.)

Anyway, count the YESs above. Maybe some people want to
comment/explain/defend how they wrote their descriptions, so don't
touch them just yet.


jer




The reason the info is there is so that users, like me, know what the
USE flag is for. Me personally, I still think some of them don't help
much and need more info but it is better than it used to be. So, if you
can make them shorter and users still able to figure out what they do,
great. If not, then the info needs to stay. Us users need it.


Thanks.

Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 05-23-2011, 04:36 PM
Rich Freeman
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> The reason the info is there is so that users, like me, know what the USE
> flag is for. *Me personally, I still think some of them don't help much and
> need more info but it is better than it used to be. *So, if you can make
> them shorter and users still able to figure out what they do, great. *If
> not, then the info needs to stay. * Us users need it.

++

A description of USE=foo enables foo support is just about useless.
Why even have the description at all in that case?

What I want to know is whether I want foo support. A description of
"Disables 99% of the functionality in chromium but still lets you
parse the config files from a command line on an embedded system" lets
me know that unless I'm doing something exotic it isn't for me.

A long sentence is probably the right level of detail. Two sentences
is probably warranted if messing with the flag can cause havoc.

Rich
 
Old 05-23-2011, 04:37 PM
Michał Górny
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

On Mon, 23 May 2011 16:48:15 +0200
Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org> wrote:

> >>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2011, Anthony G Basile wrote:
>
> > I was looking at use.desc/use.local.desc to see if the "server"
> > flag is global or not. I was surprised to see that it is not.
> > There are 26 packages that use a local "server" flag and they all
> > say something to the effect "Enable ${PN} server support".
>
> From <http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags/>:
>
> | If the effect of the USE flag upon pkg-one is substantially
> | different from the effect it has upon pkg-two, then the flag is not
> | a suitable candidate for being made a global flag. In particular,
> | note that if client and server USE flags are ever introduced, they
> | can not be global USE flags for this reason.

With that definition, USE=crypt should definitely not be global.

--
Best regards,
Michał Górny
 
Old 05-23-2011, 05:32 PM
"Anthony G. Basile"
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

On 05/23/2011 12:37 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Mon, 23 May 2011 16:48:15 +0200
> Ulrich Mueller <ulm@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 23 May 2011, Anthony G Basile wrote:
>>> I was looking at use.desc/use.local.desc to see if the "server"
>>> flag is global or not. I was surprised to see that it is not.
>>> There are 26 packages that use a local "server" flag and they all
>>> say something to the effect "Enable ${PN} server support".
>> From <http://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/use-flags/>:
>>
>> | If the effect of the USE flag upon pkg-one is substantially
>> | different from the effect it has upon pkg-two, then the flag is not
>> | a suitable candidate for being made a global flag. In particular,
>> | note that if client and server USE flags are ever introduced, they
>> | can not be global USE flags for this reason.
> With that definition, USE=crypt should definitely not be global.
>
Yep. Eg. USE="crypt" for evolution means dependence on app-crypt/gnupg
and is local while USE="crypt" for thunderbird means dependency on
x11-plugins/enigmail and is global. Both are substantially different
from what USE="crypt" means for util-linux which enables crypto-loop and
is a global.

Ouch!

--
Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D.
Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened]
E-Mail : blueness@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 8040 5A4D 8709 21B1 1A88 33CE 979C AF40 D045 5535
GnuPG ID : D0455535
 
Old 05-23-2011, 06:29 PM
Jeroen Roovers
 
Default Should "server" be a global use flag?

On Mon, 23 May 2011 11:27:18 -0500
Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> >
> > (I find myself wondering why so much information is being jammed
> > into USE flag descriptions that /should/ be available in HOWTOs from
> > upstream, or else should be written down in HOWTOs we maintain
> > ourselves - we (Gentoo) used to be good at providing HOWTOs as
> > needed and it's a good tradition to keep up. It helps the entire
> > open source community and not just our users, too.)
> >
> > Anyway, count the YESs above. Maybe some people want to
> > comment/explain/defend how they wrote their descriptions, so don't
> > touch them just yet.

> The reason the info is there is so that users, like me, know what the
> USE flag is for. Me personally, I still think some of them don't
> help much and need more info but it is better than it used to be.
> So, if you can make them shorter and users still able to figure out
> what they do, great. If not, then the info needs to stay. Us users
> need it.

What the hell are you talking about? *I* am a user... Please make a
direct point in reply to my superficial criticism on each USE=server
flag or reply to what you quoted above. I don't see anything
constructive or relevant in your reply. You seem to argue that I can
somehow technically or magically derive a USE flag's meaning whereas
you cannot. If you want to defend that, then start a new thread.


jer
 

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