FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Gentoo > Gentoo Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 03-30-2011, 07:56 PM
Amadeusz Żołnowski
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

Excerpts from James Cloos's message of Wed Mar 30 18:13:21 +0200 2011:
> j> Enables foo intergration
> j> or
> j> Enables support for foo
>
> j> if it isn't totally clear what "foo" is
>
> Even preferring $C/$PN where $PN is currently used would help,
> since it makes it clear that the foo is a package.

The main problem is that user might not know what kind of “foo” support
it is. For example I have “pango” USE flag in sys-boot/plymouth. What
would explain to you something like: “Enables support for
x11-libs/pango”? And how you would compare it with “Adds support for
printing text on splash screen and text prompts, e.g. for password”?
--
Amadeusz Żołnowski

PGP key fpr: C700 CEDE 0C18 212E 49DA 4653 F013 4531 E1DB FAB5
 
Old 03-30-2011, 08:14 PM
Olivier Crête
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 21:56 +0200, Amadeusz Żołnowski wrote:
> The main problem is that user might not know what kind of “foo” support
> it is. For example I have “pango” USE flag in sys-boot/plymouth. What
> would explain to you something like: “Enables support for
> x11-libs/pango”? And how you would compare it with “Adds support for
> printing text on splash screen and text prompts, e.g. for password”?

I'm sorry, but that's a terrible example.. In this case, it shouldn't be
a use flag at all. We shoudl avoid having use flag where the description
is "Adds support for not being completely broken"

--
Olivier Crête
tester@gentoo.org
Gentoo Developer
 
Old 03-30-2011, 08:31 PM
Amadeusz Żołnowski
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

Excerpts from Olivier Crête's message of Wed Mar 30 22:14:30 +0200 2011:
> On Wed, 2011-03-30 at 21:56 +0200, Amadeusz Żołnowski wrote:
> > The main problem is that user might not know what kind of “foo” support
> > it is. For example I have “pango” USE flag in sys-boot/plymouth. What
> > would explain to you something like: “Enables support for
> > x11-libs/pango”? And how you would compare it with “Adds support for
> > printing text on splash screen and text prompts, e.g. for password”?
>
> I'm sorry, but that's a terrible example.. In this case, it shouldn't be
> a use flag at all. We shoudl avoid having use flag where the description
> is "Adds support for not being completely broken"

Please… We're not actually discussing about what should be flagged or
not, but about descriptions, where I think I have made the point more or
less.

Justin has pointed problem which is worth our attention. It is not just
me being pissed off when reading „Enable support for foo”, there are
many users complaining about that.
--
Amadeusz Żołnowski

PGP key fpr: C700 CEDE 0C18 212E 49DA 4653 F013 4531 E1DB FAB5
 
Old 03-30-2011, 09:41 PM
Dale
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

Amadeusz Żołnowski wrote:

Justin has pointed problem which is worth our attention. It is not just
me being pissed off when reading „Enable support for foo”, there are
many users complaining about that.



+1 Some descriptions may as well not have one at all. May as well
Google the flag and the package and see what, if anything, it returns.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-30-2011, 10:42 PM
"Aaron W. Swenson"
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 03/30/2011 05:41 PM, Dale wrote:
> Amadeusz Żołnowski wrote:
>> Justin has pointed problem which is worth our attention. It is not just
>> me being pissed off when reading „Enable support for foo”, there are
>> many users complaining about that.
>>
>
> +1 Some descriptions may as well not have one at all. May as well
> Google the flag and the package and see what, if anything, it returns.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>
More often than not it just returns the Gentoo USE flag description.
Either from g.o itself, or g-p.com which duplicates the same description.

Every now and then you get real lucky and there's a post on f.g.o that
comes close to telling you what it does.

- - Aaron
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iF4EAREIAAYFAk2Tse8ACgkQCOhwUhu5AEmxiwD/YVcKJYI82bdlnqcfdlQ5YeJF
G2536ZJ/d5sdkPUTUHMA/RPQpNXpP4NZxuBJL0wU3rlpot7YGRoT6jD7hVAOAgL0
=mk5z
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
 
Old 03-30-2011, 10:57 PM
Dale
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

Aaron W. Swenson wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA256

On 03/30/2011 05:41 PM, Dale wrote:


Amadeusz Żołnowski wrote:


Justin has pointed problem which is worth our attention. It is not just
me being pissed off when reading „Enable support for foo”, there are
many users complaining about that.



+1 Some descriptions may as well not have one at all. May as well
Google the flag and the package and see what, if anything, it returns.

Dale

:-) :-)



More often than not it just returns the Gentoo USE flag description.
Either from g.o itself, or g-p.com which duplicates the same description.

Every now and then you get real lucky and there's a post on f.g.o that
comes close to telling you what it does.

- - Aaron



That was why I said "if anything". Usually, I get just what you are
describing which gives about zero help.


That said, with the limits the description has, I'm not sure how to
improve it. It doesn't have much room to expand.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-31-2011, 05:47 AM
Eray Aslan
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 04:41:25PM -0500, Dale wrote:
> +1 Some descriptions may as well not have one at all. May as well
> Google the flag and the package and see what, if anything, it returns.

I would say working as intended. If you do not know what a package
does, chances are you don't need to enable it. And if you do want
to tinker, USE flags gives you enough of a hint to start googling.

Having said that, we should at least have gramatically correct
English in descriptions. One might also lean towards more verbosity
in end-user oriented packages (versus server/backend/toolchain
packages). In any case, 10-15 words should be more than enough to
explain what a USE flag does.

--
Eray Aslan
Developer, Gentoo Linux eras <at> gentoo.org
 
Old 03-31-2011, 05:59 AM
Dale
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

Eray Aslan wrote:

On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 04:41:25PM -0500, Dale wrote:


+1 Some descriptions may as well not have one at all. May as well
Google the flag and the package and see what, if anything, it returns.


I would say working as intended. If you do not know what a package
does, chances are you don't need to enable it. And if you do want
to tinker, USE flags gives you enough of a hint to start googling.

Having said that, we should at least have gramatically correct
English in descriptions. One might also lean towards more verbosity
in end-user oriented packages (versus server/backend/toolchain
packages). In any case, 10-15 words should be more than enough to
explain what a USE flag does.




As was posted by another person, google usually points right back to the
Gentoo docs which does not help. For me, most of the time, the
descriptions don't help a bit, not even to tinker. So, given that,
maybe working as intended but still not very helpful. Having USE foo to
say it enables foo does not help much if you don't know what foo is.
There are a lot of them that says that and it really goes without saying
that it does that. If you enable a USE flag, of course it enables the
flag. Question is, what the heck is the flag? What does it do?


Maybe we need a USE flag for smoke. See if someone tinkers with it and
blows up their rig. lol


In all seriousness, this has been discussed before and it doesn't get
any better. I'm not sure how to fix it either. The space for the
description is limited.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-31-2011, 06:23 AM
Alec Warner
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Eray Aslan wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 04:41:25PM -0500, Dale wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> +1 *Some descriptions may as well not have one at all. *May as well
>>> Google the flag and the package and see what, if anything, it returns.
>>>
>>
>> I would say working as intended. *If you do not know what a package
>> does, chances are you don't need to enable it. *And if you do want
>> to tinker, USE flags gives you enough of a hint to start googling.
>>
>> Having said that, we should at least have gramatically correct
>> English in descriptions. *One might also lean towards more verbosity
>> in end-user oriented packages (versus server/backend/toolchain
>> packages). *In any case, 10-15 words should be more than enough to
>> explain what a USE flag does.
>>
>>
>
> As was posted by another person, google usually points right back to the
> Gentoo docs which does not help. *For me, most of the time, the descriptions
> don't help a bit, not even to tinker. *So, given that, maybe working as
> intended but still not very helpful. *Having USE foo to say it enables foo
> does not help much if you don't know what foo is. *There are a lot of them
> that says that and it really goes without saying that it does that. *If you
> enable a USE flag, of course it enables the flag. *Question is, what the
> heck is the flag? *What does it do?
>
> Maybe we need a USE flag for smoke. *See if someone tinkers with it and
> blows up their rig. *lol
>
> In all seriousness, this has been discussed before and it doesn't get any
> better. *I'm not sure how to fix it either. *The space for the description
> is limited.

Read the ebuild?

>
> Dale
>
> :-) *:-)
>
>
 
Old 03-31-2011, 06:44 AM
Amadeusz Żołnowski
 
Default Please enhance your USE descriptions!

Excerpts from Alec Warner's message of Thu Mar 31 08:23:45 +0200 2011:
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Eray Aslan wrote:
> > In all seriousness, this has been discussed before and it doesn't
> > get any better. *I'm not sure how to fix it either. *The space for
> > the description is limited.

What is the limit? Anyway we can change it, cannot we? And you can
always write shortly something better than “Enable support for foo”.



> On Thu, Mar 31, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
> Read the ebuild?

Read-the-ebuild? And maybe unpack the archive, check configure's help,
read the README, INSTALL and so, and analyze source code to eventually
find out what the flag does? This that what user is supposed to do for
every package?
--
Amadeusz Żołnowski

PGP key fpr: C700 CEDE 0C18 212E 49DA 4653 F013 4531 E1DB FAB5
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 04:04 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org