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Old 02-11-2011, 10:24 PM
Duncan
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

Matt Turner posted on Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:39:04 +0000 as excerpted:

> I'm a little unclear about -lpng vs -lpng15. ssuominen tells me on IRC
> that probably 90% of packages linking with libpng will fail with 1.5.
> These 90% will link with -lpng until a version that supports 1.5 is
> released? The remaining 10% will go ahead and link with -lpng15? What
> happens when 1.6 is released and breaks compatibility again?

That last is my first thought as well.

If we go ahead and patch a whole bunch of stuff to -lpng15, we're locking
ourselves in to screwing with them for 1.6 and beyond, as well. It seems
to me that if we're going to patch, patch the real problem, so -lpng
continues to work, and then we'll only be forced to fix what breaks with
1.6 when it comes out, not everything we broke by locking it to 1.5
specifically, as well.

But I'm not the one doing the patching, so...

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
 
Old 02-11-2011, 10:33 PM
Alexis Ballier
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

On Friday, February 11, 2011 05:07:50 PM Diego Elio Pettenň wrote:
> Il giorno ven, 11/02/2011 alle 16.51 -0300, Alexis Ballier ha scritto:
> > you are seriously considering patching every single package using
> > libpng like
> > this instead of fixing those that fail??? (and i'm not talking about
> > the fact
> > that these patches cannot be upstreamed...)
>
> Why not? We're *not* inventing the libpng15 thing at all...

as i read it, it's breaking the libpng.so/pc thing however...

A.
 
Old 02-11-2011, 10:44 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

On Friday, February 11, 2011 18:33:32 Alexis Ballier wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2011 05:07:50 PM Diego Elio Pettenň wrote:
> > Il giorno ven, 11/02/2011 alle 16.51 -0300, Alexis Ballier ha scritto:
> > > you are seriously considering patching every single package using
> > > libpng like
> > > this instead of fixing those that fail??? (and i'm not talking about
> > > the fact
> > > that these patches cannot be upstreamed...)
> >
> > Why not? We're *not* inventing the libpng15 thing at all...
>
> as i read it, it's breaking the libpng.so/pc thing however...

so why dont you ask the libpng upstream people ?
-mike
 
Old 02-11-2011, 10:56 PM
Alexis Ballier
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

On Friday, February 11, 2011 08:44:04 PM Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Friday, February 11, 2011 18:33:32 Alexis Ballier wrote:
> > On Friday, February 11, 2011 05:07:50 PM Diego Elio Pettenň wrote:
> > > Il giorno ven, 11/02/2011 alle 16.51 -0300, Alexis Ballier ha scritto:
> > > > you are seriously considering patching every single package using
> > > > libpng like
> > > > this instead of fixing those that fail??? (and i'm not talking about
> > > > the fact
> > > > that these patches cannot be upstreamed...)
> > >
> > > Why not? We're *not* inventing the libpng15 thing at all...
> >
> > as i read it, it's breaking the libpng.so/pc thing however...
>
> so why dont you ask the libpng upstream people ?

ask what ?
"pretty please dont install libpng.pc/.so, pretty please force every consumer
to hardcode the version because i know people that want to do this" ?

Thanks, I'm fine with having it non slotted.

A.
 
Old 02-12-2011, 10:21 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

On Friday, February 11, 2011 11:49:43 Samuli Suominen wrote:
> On 02/11/2011 06:38 PM, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:
> > 4) What have we learned from libpng 1.2 -> 1.4 upgrade? I'd just like to
> > be better informed.
>
> One way under consideration:
>
> We have been discussing about removing libpng.pc, libpng.so and
> unversioned headers from the libpng 1.5.x package allowing it to install
> parallel with libpng 1.4.x.
>
> That means every package that has been checked working against 1.5.x,
> will need to be patched to link against -lpng15, use headers from the
> libpng15/ directory and use libpng15.pc instead.
>
> Or we go with the old route as with 1.2 to 1.4 but that means everything
> must be ported before it gets KEYWORDS.

i dont see any real advantages with SLOT-ed installs of libpng beyond ABI
(i.e. what we're doing today with libpng-1.2.x and libpng-1.4.x). there are
however plenty of downsides. patching packages in the tree is a huge hassle,
you add hassle to end users who d/l random packages and try to build things
themselves, and you make Gentoo non-standard wrt every other distro out there.

best we follow what everyone else is already doing, and what upstream packages
will have to ultimately do anyways -- fix their code to work with libpng-1.5
when the API has been forcibly broken.
-mike
 
Old 02-12-2011, 10:31 PM
Nikos Chantziaras
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

On 02/13/2011 01:21 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:

On Friday, February 11, 2011 11:49:43 Samuli Suominen wrote:

On 02/11/2011 06:38 PM, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:

4) What have we learned from libpng 1.2 -> 1.4 upgrade? I'd just like to
be better informed.

[...]
We have been discussing about removing libpng.pc, libpng.so and
unversioned headers from the libpng 1.5.x package allowing it to install
parallel with libpng 1.4.x.
[...]


i dont see any real advantages with SLOT-ed installs of libpng beyond ABI
(i.e. what we're doing today with libpng-1.2.x and libpng-1.4.x). there are
however plenty of downsides. patching packages in the tree is a huge hassle,
you add hassle to end users who d/l random packages and try to build things
themselves, and you make Gentoo non-standard wrt every other distro out there.

best we follow what everyone else is already doing, and what upstream packages
will have to ultimately do anyways -- fix their code to work with libpng-1.5
when the API has been forcibly broken.


Or you can mask libpng-1.5 since most users aren't interested in having
the latest version of something they won't be using directly. Wait
until packages have been fixed upstream. Then 8 months or a year later,
unmask it.
 
Old 02-13-2011, 01:26 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

On Saturday, February 12, 2011 18:31:12 Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/13/2011 01:21 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Friday, February 11, 2011 11:49:43 Samuli Suominen wrote:
> >> On 02/11/2011 06:38 PM, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr." wrote:
> >>> 4) What have we learned from libpng 1.2 -> 1.4 upgrade? I'd just like
> >>> to be better informed.
> >>
> >> We have been discussing about removing libpng.pc, libpng.so and
> >> unversioned headers from the libpng 1.5.x package allowing it to install
> >> parallel with libpng 1.4.x.
> >
> > i dont see any real advantages with SLOT-ed installs of libpng beyond ABI
> > (i.e. what we're doing today with libpng-1.2.x and libpng-1.4.x). there
> > are however plenty of downsides. patching packages in the tree is a
> > huge hassle, you add hassle to end users who d/l random packages and try
> > to build things themselves, and you make Gentoo non-standard wrt every
> > other distro out there.
> >
> > best we follow what everyone else is already doing, and what upstream
> > packages will have to ultimately do anyways -- fix their code to work
> > with libpng-1.5 when the API has been forcibly broken.
>
> Or you can mask libpng-1.5 since most users aren't interested in having
> the latest version of something they won't be using directly. Wait
> until packages have been fixed upstream. Then 8 months or a year later,
> unmask it.

that isnt how we work
-mike
 
Old 02-13-2011, 01:37 AM
Diego Elio Pettenò
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

Il giorno sab, 12/02/2011 alle 18.21 -0500, Mike Frysinger ha scritto:
> patching packages in the tree is a huge hassle,
> you add hassle to end users who d/l random packages and try to build
> things
> themselves, and you make Gentoo non-standard wrt every other distro
> out there.

What I had in mind was something that would work for upstreams as well,
mostly by having fallback; so if a package supported up to libpng 1.4 it
would search for -lpng14, then -lpng12, then -lpng (and in Gentoo would
hit -lpng14); while one supporting 1.5 as well would go -lpng15 -lpng14
-lpng12 -lpng ...

i.e. what most already do for berkdb but at some point with us not
providing -lpng at all, if most upstreams would like that idea.

But it's still a bit hairy at the moment, I admit it might just not fly.

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
 
Old 02-13-2011, 06:22 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

On Saturday, February 12, 2011 21:37:29 Diego Elio Pettenň wrote:
> Il giorno sab, 12/02/2011 alle 18.21 -0500, Mike Frysinger ha scritto:
> > patching packages in the tree is a huge hassle,
> > you add hassle to end users who d/l random packages and try to build
> > things
> > themselves, and you make Gentoo non-standard wrt every other distro
> > out there.
>
> What I had in mind was something that would work for upstreams as well,
> mostly by having fallback; so if a package supported up to libpng 1.4 it
> would search for -lpng14, then -lpng12, then -lpng (and in Gentoo would
> hit -lpng14); while one supporting 1.5 as well would go -lpng15 -lpng14
> -lpng12 -lpng ...
>
> i.e. what most already do for berkdb but at some point with us not
> providing -lpng at all, if most upstreams would like that idea.

i'm not sure comparing to berkdb is appropriate. upstream packages using
berkdb have themselves changed to doing a version scan before falling back to
the canonical one. if upstream packages start changing to do that with
libpng, then perhaps we can talk about restructuring libpng ebuilds, but it
seems to me that upstream packages are more likely to simply update their code
to work with libpng-1.5 than add a version scan for libpng-1.4.

thus it's a lot more sane in the long term to assume that packages support the
latest rather than patching everyone (and being forced to carry those custom
patches indefinitely) to set the ceiling at the last "known" working version.
-mike
 
Old 02-13-2011, 07:16 PM
Diego Elio Pettenò
 
Default libpng-1.5 smooth upgrade

Il giorno dom, 13/02/2011 alle 14.22 -0500, Mike Frysinger ha scritto:
>
> thus it's a lot more sane in the long term to assume that packages
> support the
> latest rather than patching everyone (and being forced to carry those
> custom
> patches indefinitely) to set the ceiling at the last "known" working
> version.

Okay so what would you think of installing the headers and .pc files for
the "previous ABI" slotted packages? It would extend a bit more the
non-latest, but wouldn't stray far from what we've done up to now, and
we'd have a proof of concept to show upstream how to implements the
fallbacks... then we could probably talk some of them to do just that.

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — Flameeyes
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/
 

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