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Old 10-31-2010, 01:38 PM
Alex Alexander
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:50:02AM +0000, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> > On 10/30/2010 08:10 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
> > > If i remember it right, the server profile was created for those people, who only want a minimum
> > > amount of default profile enabled USE flags (so no desktop profile because of that), but on the
> > > other side dont want to do the additional work/checks/reading for hardened profiles (which have much
> > > less profile enabled USE flags, but also have the special gcc, glibc and Kernel), basicly a profile,
> > > which does the same as hardened profile without the specific hardened bits.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Isn't this essentially what the default profile is? Basically server is
> > just default + USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml".
> Well it shouldn't be like that. And if the default profile is pretty
> much the same as the server one, then please consider removing the
> server profile as it makes no sense then

Please don't. The fact that there are only a few changes doesn't make it
useless. Also, you'd be forcing all users currently using the profile to
migrate without any real reason.

--
Alex Alexander | wired
Gentoo Linux Developer | Council / Qt / Chromium / more
www.linuxized.com
 
Old 10-31-2010, 01:41 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 04:38:09PM +0200, Alex Alexander wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:50:02AM +0000, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> > > On 10/30/2010 08:10 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
> > > > If i remember it right, the server profile was created for those people, who only want a minimum
> > > > amount of default profile enabled USE flags (so no desktop profile because of that), but on the
> > > > other side dont want to do the additional work/checks/reading for hardened profiles (which have much
> > > > less profile enabled USE flags, but also have the special gcc, glibc and Kernel), basicly a profile,
> > > > which does the same as hardened profile without the specific hardened bits.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Isn't this essentially what the default profile is? Basically server is
> > > just default + USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml".
> > Well it shouldn't be like that. And if the default profile is pretty
> > much the same as the server one, then please consider removing the
> > server profile as it makes no sense then
>
> Please don't. The fact that there are only a few changes doesn't make it
> useless. Also, you'd be forcing all users currently using the profile to
> migrate without any real reason.
>
> --
> Alex Alexander | wired
> Gentoo Linux Developer | Council / Qt / Chromium / more
> www.linuxized.com

You are missing the point here. My intention is to make server profiles
more "generic" for server usage and not optimised for ldap/web hosting
services


--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410
 
Old 10-31-2010, 06:47 PM
Alec Warner
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Alex Alexander <wired@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:50:02AM +0000, Markos Chandras wrote:
>> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
>> > On 10/30/2010 08:10 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
>> > > If i remember it right, the server profile was created for those people, who only want a minimum
>> > > amount of default profile enabled USE flags (so no desktop profile because of that), but on the
>> > > other side dont want to do the additional work/checks/reading for hardened profiles (which have much
>> > > less profile enabled USE flags, but also have the special gcc, glibc and Kernel), basicly a profile,
>> > > which does the same as hardened profile without the specific hardened bits.
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > Isn't this essentially what the default profile is? *Basically server is
>> > just default + USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml".
>> Well it shouldn't be like that. And if the default profile is pretty
>> much the same as the server one, then please consider removing the
>> server profile as it makes no sense then
>
> Please don't. The fact that there are only a few changes doesn't make it
> useless. Also, you'd be forcing all users currently using the profile to
> migrate without any real reason.

We don't really delete profiles (maybe once every few years...) We
could opt to mark the server target deprecated and not update it
anymore.

-A

>
> --
> Alex Alexander | wired
> Gentoo Linux Developer | Council / Qt / Chromium / more
> www.linuxized.com
>
 
Old 10-31-2010, 07:04 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 12:47:32PM -0700, Alec Warner wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Alex Alexander <wired@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:50:02AM +0000, Markos Chandras wrote:
> >> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> >> > On 10/30/2010 08:10 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
> >> > > If i remember it right, the server profile was created for those people, who only want a minimum
> >> > > amount of default profile enabled USE flags (so no desktop profile because of that), but on the
> >> > > other side dont want to do the additional work/checks/reading for hardened profiles (which have much
> >> > > less profile enabled USE flags, but also have the special gcc, glibc and Kernel), basicly a profile,
> >> > > which does the same as hardened profile without the specific hardened bits.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >> > Isn't this essentially what the default profile is? *Basically server is
> >> > just default + USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml".
> >> Well it shouldn't be like that. And if the default profile is pretty
> >> much the same as the server one, then please consider removing the
> >> server profile as it makes no sense then
> >
> > Please don't. The fact that there are only a few changes doesn't make it
> > useless. Also, you'd be forcing all users currently using the profile to
> > migrate without any real reason.
>
> We don't really delete profiles (maybe once every few years...) We
> could opt to mark the server target deprecated and not update it
> anymore.
>
> -A
>
> >
> > --
> > Alex Alexander | wired
> > Gentoo Linux Developer | Council / Qt / Chromium / more
> > www.linuxized.com
> >
>
I did not literally mean what I said. My intention is to make server
profiles useful. They are not equivalent to default profile ( at least they
shouldn't). I see that this discussion is moving to dead-end so I will
to what I suggested at least at the amd64 profile

1) drop apache2, ldap use flags
2) Adjust warning message to reflect reallity

in 72 hours

---
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410
 
Old 11-01-2010, 04:41 PM
Peter Volkov
 
Default Changes in server profiles

В Вск, 31/10/2010 в 16:38 +0200, Alex Alexander пишет:
> On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:50:02AM +0000, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> > > Isn't this essentially what the default profile is? Basically server is
> > > just default + USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml".
> > Well it shouldn't be like that. And if the default profile is pretty
> > much the same as the server one, then please consider removing the
> > server profile as it makes no sense then
>
> Please don't. The fact that there are only a few changes doesn't make it
> useless. Also, you'd be forcing all users currently using the profile to
> migrate without any real reason.

But what is the target group of this profile? It sets only 6 USE flags
that are really useless on half of servers (e.g. VPN/mail server). I'd
better set only -perl -python there to make servers less dependent on
python/perl updaters and decrease rebuilds for servers. Also it's good
idea to make them hardened only as hardened works very well for
servers.

--
Peter.
 
Old 11-01-2010, 06:07 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 08:41:34PM +0300, Peter Volkov wrote:
> В Вск, 31/10/2010 в 16:38 +0200, Alex Alexander пишет:
> > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:50:02AM +0000, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> > > > Isn't this essentially what the default profile is? Basically server is
> > > > just default + USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml".
> > > Well it shouldn't be like that. And if the default profile is pretty
> > > much the same as the server one, then please consider removing the
> > > server profile as it makes no sense then
> >
> > Please don't. The fact that there are only a few changes doesn't make it
> > useless. Also, you'd be forcing all users currently using the profile to
> > migrate without any real reason.
>
> But what is the target group of this profile? It sets only 6 USE flags
> that are really useless on half of servers (e.g. VPN/mail server). I'd
> better set only -perl -python there to make servers less dependent on
> python/perl updaters and decrease rebuilds for servers. Also it's good
> idea to make them hardened only as hardened works very well for
> servers.
>
> --
> Peter.
>
>
Errr no. There are also home based fileservers, media servers, routers,
radio servers blah blah blah. Not everyone needs the hardened
toolchain/kernel/security/etc. The target group are lightweight servers for home
or SOHO usage, file sharing, nfs, etc. I maintain such a server group so
I am talking based on personal experience. As I said before server usage is
not always security oriented.
Yes, perhaps using -python/-perl might be good.
--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410
 
Old 11-02-2010, 07:30 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 08:41:34PM +0300, Peter Volkov wrote:
> В Вск, 31/10/2010 в 16:38 +0200, Alex Alexander пишет:
> > On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 11:50:02AM +0000, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 10:59:08PM -0400, Richard Freeman wrote:
> > > > Isn't this essentially what the default profile is? Basically server is
> > > > just default + USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml".
> > > Well it shouldn't be like that. And if the default profile is pretty
> > > much the same as the server one, then please consider removing the
> > > server profile as it makes no sense then
> >
> > Please don't. The fact that there are only a few changes doesn't make it
> > useless. Also, you'd be forcing all users currently using the profile to
> > migrate without any real reason.
>
> But what is the target group of this profile? It sets only 6 USE flags
> that are really useless on half of servers (e.g. VPN/mail server). I'd
> better set only -perl -python there to make servers less dependent on
> python/perl updaters and decrease rebuilds for servers. Also it's good
> idea to make them hardened only as hardened works very well for
> servers.
>
> --
> Peter.
>
>

Attached you may find my final proposal for server profiles.

--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410
Index: default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc
================================================== =================
RCS file: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/profiles/default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -b -B -u -r1.1 profile.bashrc
--- default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc 6 Aug 2009 06:33:39 -0000 1.1
+++ default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc 2 Nov 2010 20:28:19 -0000
@@ -6,16 +6,10 @@
then
if [[ ! "${I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING}" == "yes" ]]
then
- ewarn "This profile has not been tested thoroughly and is not considered to be"
- ewarn "a supported server profile at this time. For a supported server"
- ewarn "profile, please check the Hardened project (http://hardened.gentoo.org)."
echo
ewarn "This profile is merely a convenience for people who require a more"
ewarn "minimal profile, yet are unable to use hardened due to restrictions in"
- ewarn "the software being used on the server. This profile should also be used"
- ewarn "if you require GCC 4.1 or Glibc 2.4 support. If you don't know if this"
- ewarn "applies to you, then it doesn't and you should probably be using"
- ewarn "Hardened, instead."
+ ewarn "the software being used on the server."
echo
fi
fi
Index: targets/server/make.defaults
================================================== =================
RCS file: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/profiles/targets/server/make.defaults,v
retrieving revision 1.2
diff -u -b -B -u -r1.2 make.defaults
--- targets/server/make.defaults 17 Aug 2009 18:32:10 -0000 1.2
+++ targets/server/make.defaults 2 Nov 2010 20:28:20 -0000
@@ -2,4 +2,4 @@
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/profiles/targets/server/make.defaults,v 1.2 2009/08/17 18:32:10 ssuominen Exp $

-USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml"
+USE="-perl -python snmp truetype xml"
 
Old 11-02-2010, 10:23 PM
"Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto"
 
Default Changes in server profiles

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 02-11-2010 19:30, Markos Chandras wrote:
- - ewarn "This profile has not been tested thoroughly and is not
considered to be"
- - ewarn "a supported server profile at this time. For a supported
server"
- - ewarn "profile, please check the Hardened project
(http://hardened.gentoo.org)."

As was stated a few times in this thread, simply dropping this ewarn
without adding a warning somewhere that anyone looking for a production
server profile should be looking at hardened, doesn't seem prudent to me.

- --
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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Old 11-02-2010, 10:36 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 10:23:36PM -0100, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 02-11-2010 19:30, Markos Chandras wrote:
> - - ewarn "This profile has not been tested thoroughly and is not
> considered to be"
> - - ewarn "a supported server profile at this time. For a supported
> server"
> - - ewarn "profile, please check the Hardened project
> (http://hardened.gentoo.org)."
>
> As was stated a few times in this thread, simply dropping this ewarn
> without adding a warning somewhere that anyone looking for a production
> server profile should be looking at hardened, doesn't seem prudent to me.
>
Hmm ok. Updated now
> - --
> Regards,
>
> Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
> Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410
Index: default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc
================================================== =================
RCS file: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/profiles/default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc,v
retrieving revision 1.1
diff -u -b -B -u -r1.1 profile.bashrc
--- default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc 6 Aug 2009 06:33:39 -0000 1.1
+++ default/linux/amd64/10.0/server/profile.bashrc 2 Nov 2010 23:34:02 -0000
@@ -6,16 +6,12 @@
then
if [[ ! "${I_KNOW_WHAT_I_AM_DOING}" == "yes" ]]
then
- ewarn "This profile has not been tested thoroughly and is not considered to be"
- ewarn "a supported server profile at this time. For a supported server"
- ewarn "profile, please check the Hardened project (http://hardened.gentoo.org)."
echo
ewarn "This profile is merely a convenience for people who require a more"
ewarn "minimal profile, yet are unable to use hardened due to restrictions in"
- ewarn "the software being used on the server. This profile should also be used"
- ewarn "if you require GCC 4.1 or Glibc 2.4 support. If you don't know if this"
- ewarn "applies to you, then it doesn't and you should probably be using"
- ewarn "Hardened, instead."
+ ewarn "the software being used on the server. If you seek for a secure"
+ ewarn "production server profile, please check the Hardened project"
+ ewarn "(http://hardened.gentoo.org)"
echo
fi
fi
Index: targets/server/make.defaults
================================================== =================
RCS file: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/profiles/targets/server/make.defaults,v
retrieving revision 1.2
diff -u -b -B -u -r1.2 make.defaults
--- targets/server/make.defaults 17 Aug 2009 18:32:10 -0000 1.2
+++ targets/server/make.defaults 2 Nov 2010 23:34:03 -0000
@@ -2,4 +2,4 @@
# Distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2
# $Header: /var/cvsroot/gentoo-x86/profiles/targets/server/make.defaults,v 1.2 2009/08/17 18:32:10 ssuominen Exp $

-USE="apache2 ldap mysql snmp truetype xml"
+USE="-perl -python snmp truetype xml"
 
Old 11-05-2010, 06:37 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default Changes in server profiles

On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 10:23:36PM -0100, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 02-11-2010 19:30, Markos Chandras wrote:
> - - ewarn "This profile has not been tested thoroughly and is not
> considered to be"
> - - ewarn "a supported server profile at this time. For a supported
> server"
> - - ewarn "profile, please check the Hardened project
> (http://hardened.gentoo.org)."
>
> As was stated a few times in this thread, simply dropping this ewarn
> without adding a warning somewhere that anyone looking for a production
> server profile should be looking at hardened, doesn't seem prudent to me.
>
> - --
> Regards,
>
> Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
> Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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> =a9yz
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

I plan to commit my latest patch on Sunday night. Thanks
--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410
 

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