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Old 10-07-2010, 06:21 AM
Diego Elio Pettenò
 
Default .la files and their future on Gentoo

Il giorno mer, 06/10/2010 alle 21.45 -0700, Alec Warner ha scritto:
>
> Because of the above, adding a toggle to roll back the change seems
> like a reasonable request. If the idea is to add a remove_la_files
> type function to eutils then the toggle can be added in a centralized
> place. If this change goes horribly awry and breaks the distribution
> (or some subset of users) everyone has an easy revert (set some envvar
> and rebuild everything...)

Do note: I have nothing against using a single function to wrap around

find "${D}" -name '*.la' -delete

it works pretty nicely also to avoid removing them for the eventual
platforms needing them (that is, if Prefix is interested in keeping them
around for any platform at all).

What I am against is _exposing the functionality to users_ (i.e. an USE
flag), as that is just going to confuse them and give us more hadaches
than it's worth.

If I cannot vouch for the entirety of the software base out there, I'm
still pretty sure it's the right way to do it for one reason: I've spent
three years writing, talking, and trying the .la files removal. Plus the
time I spent trying to deal with them between Gentoo/FreeBSD and
xine-lib. And I compared notes with other distributions.

Okay so maybe I come out a bit too strong; on the other hand I do find
it tremendously off-putting that people who have a vague idea of how the
files are consumed get to tell me that they should be kept for the sake
of it (or all deleted for the sake of it as well).

--
Diego Elio Pettenò — “Flameeyes”
http://blog.flameeyes.eu/

If you found a .asc file in this mail and know not what it is,
it's a GnuPG digital signature: http://www.gnupg.org/
 
Old 10-07-2010, 06:31 AM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default .la files and their future on Gentoo

On Thu, 07 Oct 2010 08:21:19 +0200
Diego Elio Petten <flameeyes@gmail.com> wrote:
> Okay so maybe I come out a bit too strong; on the other hand I do find
> it tremendously off-putting that people who have a vague idea of how
> the files are consumed get to tell me that they should be kept for
> the sake of it (or all deleted for the sake of it as well).

Diego, perhaps you'd find the whole thing less off-putting if you
considered the possibility that some of the people commenting know *at
least* as much as you do about libtool, and if you took the opportunity
to learn from their comments rather than trying to dictate something
that you can only claim is a perfect approach on media where you
dictate which remarks do and don't get posted.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Old 10-07-2010, 12:46 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default .la files and their future on Gentoo

* David Leverton <levertond@googlemail.com> schrieb:

> > And for Distros, it doesnt make sense to try to support anything imaginable.
>
> Not breaking things that already work would be a decent compromise.

Any concerete example on what would break if .la files aren't
installed anymore ?

> > I'm now working in embedded area (where static linking is quite common)
> > for about 10yrs, and pkg-config has proven quite well here. (packages
> > that dont provide .pc-descriptor yet, simply have to be fixed to do
> > so ;-p). Libtool, on the other hand, always had been a nightmare.
>
> What about things that don't use pkg-config?

As said above: fix them.

> If you say "we don't support that, modify it to use pkg-config",
> does that mean you're willing to make Gentoo incompatible with
> Linux in general?

This doesn't have to do anything w/ Linux - it's an purely userland
(and build-time only) issue, applicable to dozens of platforms.

When it comes to Gentoo (and maybe other distros) we only have to
fix a few packages which don't use or support pkg-config yet,
but do libtool-based imports. In recent years, those became quite rare.

> (That question isn't just about .la files, it applies to any change
> versus upstream that affects interfaces between components.)

Are you sure, these .la files are really part of the interface for
most packages, but not just an side effect of using libtool ?

> Just to reiterate, I'm not trying to block anything here. I'm just
> asking for a small override so people with use-cases you (in general,
> not a specific person) haven't thought of can be happy.

In this case you'd need some kind of switch. Okay, let's just
introduce some make.conf variable for that and tell everybody
that there's no support for it whatsoever.


cu
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/

phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weigelt@metux.de
mobile: +49 151 27565287 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Old 10-08-2010, 02:23 PM
Fabian Groffen
 
Default .la files and their future on Gentoo

On 07-10-2010 08:21:19 +0200, Diego Elio Petten wrote:
> Do note: I have nothing against using a single function to wrap around
>
> find "${D}" -name '*.la' -delete
>
> it works pretty nicely also to avoid removing them for the eventual
> platforms needing them (that is, if Prefix is interested in keeping them
> around for any platform at all).

Maybe it is necessary for our static-libs only platform(s).
In any case, a switch that can e.g. also be controlled through a profile
sounds like a nice thing if you people are going to push this forward.


--
Fabian Groffen
Gentoo on a different level
 

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