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-   -   Improve devaway system (http://www.linux-archive.org/gentoo-development/420340-improve-devaway-system.html)

Dirkjan Ochtman 08-30-2010 02:20 PM

Improve devaway system
 
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 16:14, Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:
> It seems to me that people paying less and less attention to devaway
> system[1]. As you may see yourselves, few of the entries are 2-3 year old. This
> either means that these devs are inactive since then or that they came back
> and just didn't bother updating their status. Is it possible for infra people
> to setup a script to notify the developer ( and CC the retirement alias )
> about an old devaway entry? This will help retirement team to track down
> inactive devs with ease. Furthermore having so many devs with away messages (
> where only part of the messages reflect the reality ) looks quite bad to
> community. I think that a simple script that will search all the devaway
> messages and collect those that are >60-90 days is not that difficult to get
> implemented. Does anybody have a better approach to deal with this?
>
> Thanks
>
> [1]: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/devaway.xml

Sounds good to me, but I'd actually be more interested in having
something the other way around; i.e. monitoring for activity in
commits, bugzilla, IRC and maybe the -dev mailing list to see if
people are still active and send them a message to encourage them to
set devaway if they haven't been active in, say, 15 days.

Cheers,

Dirkjan

Petteri Räty 08-30-2010 04:36 PM

Improve devaway system
 
On 08/30/2010 05:14 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> Hi there
>
> It seems to me that people paying less and less attention to devaway
> system[1]. As you may see yourselves, few of the entries are 2-3 year old. This
> either means that these devs are inactive since then or that they came back
> and just didn't bother updating their status. Is it possible for infra people
> to setup a script to notify the developer ( and CC the retirement alias )
> about an old devaway entry?

I can't speak for infra but seems like it would be useful. Anyone could
write a script that infra could put under cron.

> This will help retirement team to track down
> inactive devs with ease.

Retirement team already has scripts that do good enough job on finding
not active people. Jorge can comment on (if he happens to read this) if
they have enough man power at hand currently to act on the output.

> Furthermore having so many devs with away messages (
> where only part of the messages reflect the reality ) looks quite bad to
> community. I think that a simple script that will search all the devaway
> messages and collect those that are >60-90 days is not that difficult to get
> implemented. Does anybody have a better approach to deal with this?
>

I think this message should have been sent to gentoo-project.

Regards,
Petteri

Markos Chandras 08-30-2010 05:06 PM

Improve devaway system
 
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 07:36:29PM +0300, Petteri Räty wrote:
> On 08/30/2010 05:14 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > Hi there
> >
> > It seems to me that people paying less and less attention to devaway
> > system[1]. As you may see yourselves, few of the entries are 2-3 year old. This
> > either means that these devs are inactive since then or that they came back
> > and just didn't bother updating their status. Is it possible for infra people
> > to setup a script to notify the developer ( and CC the retirement alias )
> > about an old devaway entry?
>
> I can't speak for infra but seems like it would be useful. Anyone could
> write a script that infra could put under cron.

find /home/ -name ".away" -mtime +60 -exec sendmail -t <developer> <message.txt> placed on dev box should be a good starting point.

where message.txt could be

" From: devaway-alert@gentoo.org
To: <developer>
CC: retirement@gentoo.org
Subject: Your devaway message is too old
[....]
"

>
> > This will help retirement team to track down
> > inactive devs with ease.
>
> Retirement team already has scripts that do good enough job on finding
> not active people. Jorge can comment on (if he happens to read this) if
> they have enough man power at hand currently to act on the output.
>
Yeah I do know that but my biggest concern is the status update of this page
rather than using it for spotting inactive devs
> > Furthermore having so many devs with away messages (
> > where only part of the messages reflect the reality ) looks quite bad to
> > community. I think that a simple script that will search all the devaway
> > messages and collect those that are >60-90 days is not that difficult to get
> > implemented. Does anybody have a better approach to deal with this?
> >
>
> I think this message should have been sent to gentoo-project.
Yeah that's true :-/ We can move the discussion there if you want
>
> Regards,
> Petteri
>

--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410

Mike Frysinger 08-30-2010 06:03 PM

Improve devaway system
 
On Monday, August 30, 2010 10:14:48 Markos Chandras wrote:
> It seems to me that people paying less and less attention to devaway
> system[1]. As you may see yourselves, few of the entries are 2-3 year old.
> This either means that these devs are inactive since then or that they
> came back and just didn't bother updating their status. Is it possible for
> infra people to setup a script to notify the developer ( and CC the
> retirement alias ) about an old devaway entry? This will help retirement
> team to track down inactive devs with ease. Furthermore having so many
> devs with away messages ( where only part of the messages reflect the
> reality ) looks quite bad to community. I think that a simple script that
> will search all the devaway messages and collect those that are >60-90
> days is not that difficult to get implemented. Does anybody have a better
> approach to deal with this?

i'd extend the spec a little so that the dev can declare their expected return
time and have the script ignore entries before that date

perhaps say "the very last line should be just the date in YYYY-MM-DD format"
-mike

Steve Dibb 08-30-2010 08:30 PM

Improve devaway system
 
On 08/30/10 08:20, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 16:14, Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> It seems to me that people paying less and less attention to devaway
>> system[1]. As you may see yourselves, few of the entries are 2-3 year old. This
>> either means that these devs are inactive since then or that they came back
>> and just didn't bother updating their status. Is it possible for infra people
>> to setup a script to notify the developer ( and CC the retirement alias )
>> about an old devaway entry? This will help retirement team to track down
>> inactive devs with ease. Furthermore having so many devs with away messages (
>> where only part of the messages reflect the reality ) looks quite bad to
>> community. I think that a simple script that will search all the devaway
>> messages and collect those that are >60-90 days is not that difficult to get
>> implemented. Does anybody have a better approach to deal with this?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> [1]: http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/roll-call/devaway.xml
>
> Sounds good to me, but I'd actually be more interested in having
> something the other way around; i.e. monitoring for activity in
> commits, bugzilla, IRC and maybe the -dev mailing list to see if
> people are still active and send them a message to encourage them to
> set devaway if they haven't been active in, say, 15 days.

Please no.

Michael Weber 08-30-2010 09:13 PM

Improve devaway system
 
Hello fellow developers.

On 08/30/2010 04:20 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> Sounds good to me, but I'd actually be more interested in having
> something the other way around; i.e. monitoring for activity in
> commits, bugzilla, IRC and maybe the -dev mailing list to see if
> people are still active and send them a message to encourage them to
> set devaway if they haven't been active in, say, 15 days.

I think the intention was to force actually active developers to
remove their out-of-date .away message, which isn't very representative
for the project.

You should not annoy currently busy/otherwise occupied developers by asking
them to do random stuff to avoid a drop-out.

My first 2 cents.

Michael Weber

--
Gentoo Developer

"Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto" 08-31-2010 12:58 AM

Improve devaway system
 
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Hash: SHA1

Hello.

On 30-08-2010 16:36, Petteri Räty wrote:
> On 08/30/2010 05:14 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
>> Hi there
>>
>> It seems to me that people paying less and less attention to devaway
>> system[1]. As you may see yourselves, few of the entries are 2-3 year old. This
>> either means that these devs are inactive since then or that they came back
>> and just didn't bother updating their status. Is it possible for infra people
>> to setup a script to notify the developer ( and CC the retirement alias )
>> about an old devaway entry?
>
> I can't speak for infra but seems like it would be useful. Anyone could
> write a script that infra could put under cron.
>
>> This will help retirement team to track down
>> inactive devs with ease.
>
> Retirement team already has scripts that do good enough job on finding
> not active people. Jorge can comment on (if he happens to read this) if
> they have enough man power at hand currently to act on the output.

We already have enough tools to notify us about "slacking" developers.
However, at one point the "slacker email" also included the away message
and the .away file date. It's a pity it was removed from a later
revision as that was helpful.
As in many other jobs around here, the issue with retirement is
motivation. We can always use more man power, but without constant
motivation, it won't improve the project status.

>> Furthermore having so many devs with away messages (
>> where only part of the messages reflect the reality ) looks quite bad to
>> community. I think that a simple script that will search all the devaway
>> messages and collect those that are >60-90 days is not that difficult to get
>> implemented. Does anybody have a better approach to deal with this?
>>
>
> I think this message should have been sent to gentoo-project.
>
> Regards,
> Petteri
>

- --
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
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Duncan 08-31-2010 01:59 AM

Improve devaway system
 
Mike Frysinger posted on Mon, 30 Aug 2010 14:03:21 -0400 as excerpted:

> On Monday, August 30, 2010 10:14:48 Markos Chandras wrote:
>> It seems to me that people paying less and less attention to devaway
>> system[1]. As you may see yourselves, few of the entries are 2-3 year
>> old. This either means that these devs are inactive since then or that
>> they came back and just didn't bother updating their status.

>> I think that a simple script that will search all the devaway messages
>> and collect those that are >60-90 days is not that difficult to get
>> implemented. Does anybody have a better approach to deal with this?
>
> i'd extend the spec a little so that the dev can declare their expected
> return time and have the script ignore entries before that date
>
> perhaps say "the very last line should be just the date in YYYY-MM-DD
> format"

Indeed. In some countries, and we've had more than one dev that this has
affected, there's mandatory military service for a year.

In the US there's not a mandatory thing, but many volunteer for the
reserves or national guard and they've been called into rotation in both
Iraq and Afghanistan. That's 2-3 years, AFAIK, and while folks
volunteering now surely know and expect they might be in rotation, a lot
of those in at the time those wars started, didn't.

Now some may wish to retire before that, as they don't know what they'll
be doing afterward. Others may have definite plans for Gentoo afterward
as well, and I think an extended "leave of absence" should be allowed for
that sort of thing, at least for a year. 2-3 years... a lot happens in
that time. People change. Plans change. Gentoo/Linux/FLOSS changes.
For those longer stints, perhaps a retirement and re-recruitment is
appropriate. But I don't think a year out should mandate it, and I guess
it'd depend a lot on the person and their plans, if it's longer than that.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

"Robin H. Johnson" 08-31-2010 08:03 AM

Improve devaway system
 
On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 11:13:15PM +0200, Michael Weber wrote:
> Hello fellow developers.
>
> On 08/30/2010 04:20 PM, Dirkjan Ochtman wrote:
> > Sounds good to me, but I'd actually be more interested in having
> > something the other way around; i.e. monitoring for activity in
> > commits, bugzilla, IRC and maybe the -dev mailing list to see if
> > people are still active and send them a message to encourage them to
> > set devaway if they haven't been active in, say, 15 days.
>
> I think the intention was to force actually active developers to
> remove their out-of-date .away message, which isn't very representative
> for the project.
.away age statistics, as of right now (2010/08/31, 07:27 UTC).
- 53 developers with .away files.
- Oldest: 2007/Mar/01 (1278.8 days old).
- Mean: 153 days old.
- Median: 55.5 days.
- First, Third quartiles: 23.3, 136.5 days.

What do the numbers mean? My opinion looking at them is that MOST
developers are using the .away system correctly, however some developers
just have forgotten to remove old .away files (they claimed they would
be back by a date, and commits started up after that).

I'll fully admit that I neglected to remove my last .away until I
double-checked earlier today.

How about this as an idea:
1. Include a parsaable return date I suggest ("Returning:YYYY/MM/DD",
"Returning:Unknown")
2. Automated emails when:
2.1. It's after the return date (weekly).
2.2. You start committing again.

--
Robin Hugh Johnson
Gentoo Linux: Developer, Trustee & Infrastructure Lead
E-Mail : robbat2@gentoo.org
GnuPG FP : 11AC BA4F 4778 E3F6 E4ED F38E B27B 944E 3488 4E85

Markos Chandras 08-31-2010 09:18 AM

Improve devaway system
 
On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 08:03:21AM +0000, Robin H. Johnson wrote:
>
> How about this as an idea:
> 1. Include a parsaable return date I suggest ("Returning:YYYY/MM/DD",
> "Returning:Unknown")
> 2. Automated emails when:
> 2.1. It's after the return date (weekly).
Ok but what about the Returning:Unknown? An idea is to send him an automated
email after 60 days or so.
> 2.2. You start committing again.
People ( including me ) might be 'away' and do commits from time to time. That
doesn't prove that they are active. E.g. If there is a security bump, then I
might pop up and do it and then disappear again :-)

--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
Key ID: 441AC410
Key FP: AAD0 8591 E3CD 445D 6411 3477 F7F7 1E8E 441A C410


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