On 8/6/10 12:26 PM, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> since I am this meetings girl for everything here is first pass on our
> agenda.

I'd like to add some points to the agenda.

1. The Gentoo Security team is severly understaffed, they have an entry
on the Staffing Needs page, but no long-term improvement is visible over
the last 6 months. The status visibility is low, and it's even hard to
ask for tasks to help with.

2. Can we get more project visibility about the git migration? Like what
is happening, what is blocking us, some roadmaps? Maybe the data is
there and I can't find it - but that would be another problem.

Paweł

On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:49:19 -0700, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
<phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> 1. The Gentoo Security team is severly understaffed, they have an
> entry on the Staffing Needs page, but no long-term improvement is
> visible over the last 6 months. The status visibility is low, and
> it's even hard to ask for tasks to help with.

And you'd like the council to do what about that exactly?

--
Alex Legler | Gentoo Security / Ruby
a3li@gentoo.org | a3li@jabber.ccc.de

On 8/6/10 3:36 PM, Alex Legler wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Aug 2010 14:49:19 -0700, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
> <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> 1. The Gentoo Security team is severly understaffed, they have an
>> entry on the Staffing Needs page, but no long-term improvement is
>> visible over the last 6 months. The status visibility is low, and
>> it's even hard to ask for tasks to help with.
>
> And you'd like the council to do what about that exactly?

I'd like the council to help with improving the situation. I tried to
help at the project level, and I'll probably do some work for the team.

However, it still seems to me that a more long-term solution needs to be
applied. Are the project leads active? Why is the security team so busy
it can't train new team members?

Paweł

Am 06.08.2010 23:49, schrieb "Paweł Hajdan, Jr.":
> On 8/6/10 12:26 PM, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
>> since I am this meetings girl for everything here is first pass on our
>> agenda.
>
> 2. Can we get more project visibility about the git migration? Like what
> is happening, what is blocking us, some roadmaps? Maybe the data is
> there and I can't find it - but that would be another problem.
>
> Paweł
>

We have the gentoo-scm list, which is used for the git migration tracing. If you think, there may be
updates, but they are not written there, just write a mail and ask for a status update. ;-) And i
think, there have already been mails about what has to be done before we can think about git
migration of the main tree.

--
Thomas Sachau

Gentoo Linux Developer

On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 09:26:46PM +0200, Tommmmm Chvvvtal wrote:
> Hi,
> since I am this meetings girl for everything here is first pass on our
> agenda.
>
> I am adding this mail only to g-dev and g-dev-announce to see if
> everyone notice, sorry if it slip your radar. Also if you have something
> to say on this mail please reply to gentoo-dev, or you will render me
> quite sad about thread breaking.
>
> Without much ado here goes THE PLAN:
>
> 1) allow all members to show up (5 min)
> 2) voting
> 2a) we have nothing to vote this time, nobody wanted anything YAY
> 3) discussion
> 3a) from last council meeting: the mailing list situation
> 3b) from last council meeting: eclass API changes
> 3c) EAPI 4 status (jmbsvicetto nominate this so we actualy do something new)
> 4) Bugs assigned to council@ in bugzilla and their progress
> 5) select the chair for following meeting
> 6) open floor: community/developers can smash us here
> Z) buy some cookies (30 min)

I suspect we may not wind up being able to get to it in the coming
meeting, but I'd like g55 sorted.

Specifically, if the authors of it (cc'd) want it to move forward,
request the council vote on it. If you don't want it voted on, mark
it moribund.

The purpose behind this is to put to end this discussion rather than
having it flare up and make a mess every few months.

Simply put, it's nothing but divisive noise at this point with no real
new technical discourse occuring- meaning it's realistically time for
a decision (either push it to a vote or put it to bed).

~harring

On 8/7/10 12:53 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
> We have the gentoo-scm list, which is used for the git migration
> tracing.

The list seems quite low-traffic. Why not keep the discussions on
gentoo-dev/gentoo-project?

> If you think, there may be updates, but they are not written there,
> just write a mail and ask for a status update. ;-) And i think, there
> have already been mails about what has to be done before we can think
> about git migration of the main tree.

Right, the point is - can we get a web page with that information?
Locating it from e-mails is not the easiest way.

I think that the easier it is to get the list of tasks to be done, the
more likely you are to get the needed help.

Paweł

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 9:46 PM, "Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
<phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 8/7/10 12:53 AM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
>> We have the gentoo-scm list, which is used for the git migration
>> tracing.
>
> The list seems quite low-traffic. Why not keep the discussions on
> gentoo-dev/gentoo-project?
>

The fact that it's low-traffic is good. It means that progress doesn't
get lost in the flood of emails on -dev. Also, discussion about
development work would be offtopic on -project.

>> If you think, there may be updates, but they are not written there,
>> just write a mail and ask for a status update. ;-) And i think, there
>> have already been mails about what has to be done before we can think
>> about git migration of the main tree.
>
> Right, the point is - can we get a web page with that information?

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-scm

> Locating it from e-mails is not the easiest way.
>

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-scm/msg_f827a8dd519e2d831f77bb32895342bb.xml

I found that email right there on the archives page under "Re: Status"
by Robin H. Johnson.

> I think that the easier it is to get the list of tasks to be done, the
> more likely you are to get the needed help.
>

If people aren't willing to visit the archives of a very-low-traffic
ML and browse a few emails, I don't think they'd be motivated enough
to get some actual work done.

--
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team

On Sat, Aug 07, 2010 at 06:16:30AM -0700, Brian Harring wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 06, 2010 at 09:26:46PM +0200, Tommmmm Chvvvtal wrote:
> > Hi,
> > since I am this meetings girl for everything here is first pass on our
> > agenda.
> >
> > I am adding this mail only to g-dev and g-dev-announce to see if
> > everyone notice, sorry if it slip your radar. Also if you have something
> > to say on this mail please reply to gentoo-dev, or you will render me
> > quite sad about thread breaking.
> >
> > Without much ado here goes THE PLAN:
> >
> > 1) allow all members to show up (5 min)
> > 2) voting
> > 2a) we have nothing to vote this time, nobody wanted anything YAY
> > 3) discussion
> > 3a) from last council meeting: the mailing list situation
> > 3b) from last council meeting: eclass API changes
> > 3c) EAPI 4 status (jmbsvicetto nominate this so we actualy do something new)
> > 4) Bugs assigned to council@ in bugzilla and their progress
> > 5) select the chair for following meeting
> > 6) open floor: community/developers can smash us here
> > Z) buy some cookies (30 min)
>
> I suspect we may not wind up being able to get to it in the coming
> meeting, but I'd like g55 sorted.
>
> Specifically, if the authors of it (cc'd) want it to move forward,
> request the council vote on it. If you don't want it voted on, mark
> it moribund.
>
> The purpose behind this is to put to end this discussion rather than
> having it flare up and make a mess every few months.
>
> Simply put, it's nothing but divisive noise at this point with no real
> new technical discourse occuring- meaning it's realistically time for
> a decision (either push it to a vote or put it to bed).

Regardless of my personal opinions about the technical issues on this
glep, I agree with the above statement. I am personally tired of seeing
the discussion flare up every few months and go nowhere.

William

On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 15:48:32 -0500
William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Regardless of my personal opinions about the technical issues on this
> glep, I agree with the above statement. I am personally tired of
> seeing the discussion flare up every few months and go nowhere.

Have you considered that it flares up every few months because every
few months people want new functionality from EAPIs that can't be
delivered using the existing EAPI mechanisms?

--
Ciaran McCreesh

On Sun, Aug 08, 2010 at 08:46:07AM +0100, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Sat, 7 Aug 2010 15:48:32 -0500
> William Hubbs <williamh@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > Regardless of my personal opinions about the technical issues on this
> > glep, I agree with the above statement. I am personally tired of
> > seeing the discussion flare up every few months and go nowhere.
>
> Have you considered that it flares up every few months because every
> few months people want new functionality from EAPIs that can't be
> delivered using the existing EAPI mechanisms?

Put it to a vote then, rather than flaming every few months that g55
solves all EAPI issues/world hunger.

Seriously, if the people wanting g55 can't be bothered to try and make
their proposal accepted/official, than all they're doing is
trolling/flaming/bitching, and wasting other peoples time.

~harring