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Old 07-26-2010, 10:41 PM
Sebastian Pipping
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

I like that one better.


Both proposals leave a question open to me, though:
Do I understand correctly that I could integrate the in-profile value with

LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} foo bar"

in /etc/make.conf? Maybe that's something people want to do. If so
maybe add a hint?



Sebastian
 
Old 07-27-2010, 12:27 AM
Joshua Saddler
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 13:44:36 -0700
"Paweł Hajdan, Jr." <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:
> This might be a bit unclear to less savvy users. How about just make
> sure your LDFLAGS in /etc/make.conf contains "-Wl,--as-needed" or is unset?

> Instead of saying "overriding", I'd say something more similar to
> "disabling --as-needed" and add that it is not recommended.

It should be unset; as you say, users should not be screwing with system-wide LDFLAGs, as we don't support anything but the defaults.

I put an LDFLAGs FAQ in the optimization guide a long time ago:

section>
<title>What about LDFLAGS?</title>
<body>

<p>
The Gentoo developers have already set basic, safe LDFLAGS in the base profiles,
so you don't need to change them.
</p>

</body>
</section
 
Old 07-27-2010, 03:38 AM
Ryan Hill
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 00:41:12 +0200
Sebastian Pipping <sping@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I like that one better.
>
>
> Both proposals leave a question open to me, though:
> Do I understand correctly that I could integrate the in-profile value with
>
> LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} foo bar"
>
> in /etc/make.conf? Maybe that's something people want to do. If so
> maybe add a hint?

Yep. Can I suggest:

-Wl,--as-needed has been added to the default profile's LDFLAGS.

This option optimizes the linking process, only linking binaries to
libraries that are trully needed. This way, fewer libraries are loaded
at runtime and fewer packages need to be rebuilt after library updates.

To take advantage of the new default you can either rebuild world now or just
allow the system to migrate incrementally as it updates.

Please note that setting LDFLAGS="<your flags>" in your make.conf will
override the profile defaults. If you want to add additional LDFLAGS it is
recommended to use LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} <your flags>" instead to avoid this.

For more information on --as-needed, read [1].

[1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml


--
fonts, gcc-porting, and it's all by design
toolchain, wxwidgets to keep us from losing our minds
@ gentoo.org EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662
 
Old 07-27-2010, 08:23 AM
Duncan
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

Joshua Saddler posted on Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:27:16 -0700 as excerpted:

> It should be unset; as you say, users should not be screwing with
> system-wide LDFLAGs, as we don't support anything but the defaults.
>
> I put an LDFLAGs FAQ in the optimization guide a long time ago:
>
> section>
> <title>What about LDFLAGS?</title>
> <body>
>
> <p>
> The Gentoo developers have already set basic, safe LDFLAGS in the base
> profiles, so you don't need to change them. </p>
>
> </body>
> </section

I agree with the safe bit, but that "don't need to change them" phrase is
self-evidently false, or Gentoo wouldn't have needed to make the
--as-needed change either. The change didn't magically happen the moment
the need appeared.

(Then again, I never believed that equally self-evidently false "no user
serviceable parts inside" sticker, either. When it's a few screws and a
50 cent fuse, and I'm the user without a microwave as a result...)

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
 
Old 07-27-2010, 08:36 AM
Tomáš Chvátal
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Dne 27.7.2010 05:38, Ryan Hill napsal(a):
> Yep. Can I suggest:
>
> -Wl,--as-needed has been added to the default profile's LDFLAGS.
>
> This option optimizes the linking process, only linking binaries to
> libraries that are trully needed. This way, fewer libraries are loaded
> at runtime and fewer packages need to be rebuilt after library updates.
>
> To take advantage of the new default you can either rebuild world now or just
> allow the system to migrate incrementally as it updates.
>
> Please note that setting LDFLAGS="<your flags>" in your make.conf will
> override the profile defaults. If you want to add additional LDFLAGS it is
> recommended to use LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} <your flags>" instead to avoid this.
>
> For more information on --as-needed, read [1].
>
> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml
>
>
I like this. Consider this as the update :]
With one simple replace s/trully/truly/ :P

Tom
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:55 PM
"Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

On 7/27/10 1:36 AM, Tomáš Chvátal wrote:
> Dne 27.7.2010 05:38, Ryan Hill napsal(a):
>> Yep. Can I suggest:
>
>> -Wl,--as-needed has been added to the default profile's LDFLAGS.
>
>> This option optimizes the linking process, only linking binaries to
>> libraries that are trully needed. This way, fewer libraries are loaded
>> at runtime and fewer packages need to be rebuilt after library updates.
>
>> To take advantage of the new default you can either rebuild world now or just
>> allow the system to migrate incrementally as it updates.
>
>> Please note that setting LDFLAGS="<your flags>" in your make.conf will
>> override the profile defaults. If you want to add additional LDFLAGS it is
>> recommended to use LDFLAGS="${LDFLAGS} <your flags>" instead to avoid this.
>
>> For more information on --as-needed, read [1].
>
>> [1] http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/asneeded.xml
>
>
> I like this. Consider this as the update :]
> With one simple replace s/trully/truly/ :P

I also like Ryan's version. I think it is clear and accurate.

Paweł
 
Old 07-27-2010, 02:39 PM
Jeroen Roovers
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200
Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@gentoo.org> wrote:

Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect
LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will
probably find yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed.


jer
 
Old 07-27-2010, 03:53 PM
Maciej Mrozowski
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

On Tuesday 27 of July 2010 16:39:01 Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jul
2010 22:29:06 +0200
> Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Is it
time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect
> LDFLAGS
yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will
> probably find
yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed.

A few broken apps
don't overweight the benefit of having --as-needed enabled by default.

--

regards
MM
 
Old 07-27-2010, 04:41 PM
"Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

On 7/27/10 7:39 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200
> Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even respect
> LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS, we will
> probably find yet more packages that are problematic with --as-needed.

I think that the arch teams doing the stabilizations are a good safety
net against that. And having --as-needed by default makes those issues
easier to detect.

Paweł
 
Old 07-27-2010, 04:51 PM
Jeroen Roovers
 
Default News item announcing as-needed (glep 42 stuff)

On Tue, 27 Jul 2010 09:41:36 -0700
"Paweł Hajdan, Jr." <phajdan.jr@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On 7/27/10 7:39 AM, Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> > On Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:29:06 +0200
> > Tomáš Chvátal <scarabeus@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >
> > Is it time yet? I still find a lot of packages that do not even
> > respect LDFLAGS yet - when all these get fixed to respect LDFLAGS,
> > we will probably find yet more packages that are problematic with
> > --as-needed.
>
> I think that the arch teams doing the stabilizations are a good safety
> net against that. And having --as-needed by default makes those issues
> easier to detect.

Not entirely true, because as I tried to explain, a package needs to
first respect our LDFLAGS to respect our --as-needed in the second
place. Since the QA trigger in portage is based on --hash-style=gnu,
you'd have to make that the default as well to find a package
ignoring LDFLAGS...


jer
 

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