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Old 06-21-2010, 04:33 PM
Sebastian Pipping
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

Hello!


My manifesto up here now:
http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt

Thanks for your vote!

Best,



Sebastian
 
Old 06-21-2010, 06:20 PM
Petteri Räty
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

On 06/21/2010 07:33 PM, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Hello!
>
>
> My manifesto up here now:
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt
>

> - Building sites
> - Active Council
> - More direct democracy
> - New conflict resolution team (reforming DevRel)
> - Ownership and territories
> - The two sides of infra
> - The Git migration
> - Opening up documentation
> - Gentoo PR: Database and frequent news
> - Internal news (i.e. increasing transparency)
> - (Paid external) website re-design
> - Introducing templates (e.g. for bug replies)
> - Tone and attitude in Gentoo
> - Other (minor) things

How many hours do you expect to use weekly to accomplish all these goals?

> To my understanding the conflict resolution part of DevRel is currently not working effectively.

If we are not working effectively it's not because of how we are
organized but due to needing more man power. The good thing is that
people have offered to help and I am slowly training us new members.

Regards,
Petteri
 
Old 06-21-2010, 07:25 PM
Arun Raghavan
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

Hi,

On 21 June 2010 22:03, Sebastian Pipping <sping@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Hello!
>
>
> My manifesto up here now:
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt

For all your points where you do not have a concrete proposal of how
you intend to tackle the problem, could you please elaborate?

""" (w.r.t. git migration)
I hope to see Robin integrate me with the conversion process.
"""

How have you contributed to the effort thus far?

Regards,
--
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)
 
Old 06-21-2010, 09:07 PM
Sebastian Pipping
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

Petteri,


On 06/21/10 20:20, Petteri Räty wrote:
>> My manifesto up here now:
>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt
>
>> - Building sites
>> - Active Council
>> - More direct democracy
>> - New conflict resolution team (reforming DevRel)
>> - Ownership and territories
>> - The two sides of infra
>> - The Git migration
>> - Opening up documentation
>> - Gentoo PR: Database and frequent news
>> - Internal news (i.e. increasing transparency)
>> - (Paid external) website re-design
>> - Introducing templates (e.g. for bug replies)
>> - Tone and attitude in Gentoo
>> - Other (minor) things
>
> How many hours do you expect to use weekly to accomplish all these goals?

I will not be able to do this alone - I need the rest of the council and
Gentoo to team up with me on this, no doubt.

A diploma thesis is coming up soon - that will take time away. Apart
from that Gentoo is among my top 5 focuses. The numbers of hours I put
into Gentoo per day will range from 0 to 16 hours.


>> To my understanding the conflict resolution part of DevRel is currently not working effectively.
>
> If we are not working effectively it's not because of how we are
> organized but due to needing more man power.

As I have mentioned before I respectfully disagree with this statement.


> The good thing is that
> people have offered to help and I am slowly training us new members.

I would be interested in details on how DevRel is training people.

Best,



Sebastian
 
Old 06-21-2010, 09:36 PM
Sebastian Pipping
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

Arun,


On 06/21/10 21:25, Arun Raghavan wrote:
>> My manifesto up here now:
>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt
>
> For all your points where you do not have a concrete proposal of how
> you intend to tackle the problem, could you please elaborate?

please take your time to formulate concrete questions.


> """ (w.r.t. git migration)
> I hope to see Robin integrate me with the conversion process.
> """
>
> How have you contributed to the effort thus far?

I would like to re-phrase this question to
"how come you are able to help", okay?

I have
- knowledge of Git beyond an average user of Git
- migrated Portage from Subversion to Git
including explaining fake merges using commit-tree
to the portage developers [1] and more general essentials
before that [2]
- helped tommy of sunrise to get his earler multilib fork into
the Portage repo
- worked with
- Git hooks
- Gitosis
- Gitolite (including its setup)
- studied ciabot integration recently
- read most of gentoo-scm
- exchanged ideas with rbu and idl0r about it

If Robin and I reach a point of consensus on the migration's future I
could work the full rest of this week on the Git migration.
Not because we have elections right now but because I have a bit of
flexibility on the date of my next exam: pushing that a week further is
no problem at the moment.

Best,



Sebastian


[1]
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage-dev/msg_697d7da6aca2012bce8609d59d33a7c8.xml
[2]
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-portage-dev/msg_14c474fb79ee175a228e42103db9f884.xml
 
Old 06-22-2010, 01:46 AM
Brian Harring
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 11:36:50PM +0200, Sebastian Pipping wrote:
> Arun,
>
>
> On 06/21/10 21:25, Arun Raghavan wrote:
> >> My manifesto up here now:
> >> http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt
> >
> > For all your points where you do not have a concrete proposal of how
> > you intend to tackle the problem, could you please elaborate?
>
> please take your time to formulate concrete questions.
>
>
> > """ (w.r.t. git migration)
> > I hope to see Robin integrate me with the conversion process.
> > """
> >
> > How have you contributed to the effort thus far?
>
> I would like to re-phrase this question to
> "how come you are able to help", okay?
>
> I have
> - knowledge of Git beyond an average user of Git
> - migrated Portage from Subversion to Git
> including explaining fake merges using commit-tree
> to the portage developers [1] and more general essentials
> before that [2]
> - helped tommy of sunrise to get his earler multilib fork into
> the Portage repo
> - worked with
> - Git hooks
> - Gitosis
> - Gitolite (including its setup)
> - studied ciabot integration recently
> - read most of gentoo-scm
> - exchanged ideas with rbu and idl0r about it

While an interesting list of skills, do you have any that are relevant
to finishing the cvs->git issues? I'll refer you to

http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-scm/msg_f827a8dd519e2d831f77bb32895342bb.xml

Your proposed solutions in your manifesto is to just throw out the
manifest bits that need completion, in the process ignoring the
infrastructural and security reasons for their existance. Same goes
for ignoring the commit hooks chunk for rsync generation (after all,
we can't just tell every gentoo user that "by the way, we're no longer
going to update rsync").

I'd be a bit less critical of your offer here and the manifesto
presented, if it was actually factual and at least a partially
accurate understanding of the issues outstanding.

At the very least, I suggest you actually have a chat w/ Robin
directly and get caught up on what the issues are rather than making
claims about his work that are pretty far off base.

Also please note Arun's actual question was "what have you done to
help", not "what skills do you have". There is difference- one I'm
guessing that is being lost in the language barrier.

~harring
 
Old 06-22-2010, 02:37 AM
Alec Warner
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

That is a very audacious vision you have. I am curious if you have
any priorities set for the list you provided. At first reading it
appears like you have more work than any one person could complete
(nay, even a skilled council would be hard pressed to finish
everything there.) My intention is not to disparage you from aiming
high; I am curious if you have a stack-ranked or prioritized list of
goals you think should be completed.

If you had to pick say: the top 5 accomplishments for Gentoo in
2010-2011 what would they be out of your list?

-A

On Mon, Jun 21, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Sebastian Pipping <sping@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Hello!
>
>
> My manifesto up here now:
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt
>
> Thanks for your vote!
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Sebastian
>
>
 
Old 06-22-2010, 02:37 AM
Sebastian Pipping
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

On 06/22/10 03:46, Brian Harring wrote:
> Your proposed solutions in your manifesto is to just throw out the
> manifest bits that need completion, in the process ignoring the
> infrastructural and security reasons for their existance. Same goes
> for ignoring the commit hooks chunk for rsync generation (after all,
> we can't just tell every gentoo user that "by the way, we're no longer
> going to update rsync").

The Git migration is taking us 2 years already because it's taken too
far. We need to look at what's really needed of that now.

I'll speak to Robin before I go into further details here.


> I'd be a bit less critical of your offer here and the manifesto
> presented, if it was actually factual and at least a partially
> accurate understanding of the issues outstanding.

I read that as a pretty hard accusation.
Are you referring to the Git migration or the manifesto as a whole?
Please make clear where exactly my manifesto is not factual.


> At the very least, I suggest you actually have a chat w/ Robin
> directly and get caught up on what the issues are rather than making
> claims about his work that are pretty far off base.

Earlier today I wrote to him asking for his number to be able to call
him tomorrow.


> Also please note Arun's actual question was "what have you done to
> help", not "what skills do you have". There is difference- one I'm
> guessing that is being lost in the language barrier.

I am aware of that difference.



Sebastian
 
Old 06-22-2010, 05:13 AM
Arun Raghavan
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

On 22 June 2010 03:06, Sebastian Pipping <sping@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Arun,
>
>
> On 06/21/10 21:25, Arun Raghavan wrote:
>>> My manifesto up here now:
>>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~sping/council-manifesto-2010-sping.txt
>>
>> For all your points where you do not have a concrete proposal of how
>> you intend to tackle the problem, could you please elaborate?
>
> please take your time to formulate concrete questions.

On reading again, you do have suggestions on how you would deal with
most of what you've spoken. The only one that I think could use more
details (other than all the references to "tone" which I think we
should let rest for a while) is "Opening up documentation" - do you
have any ideas for this process that might help with this while
maintaining the quality the docs team has maintained thus far?

As a follow up question, for documentation, PR, the website redesign,
and templates, do you feel that these are tasks that need to be
addressed by council members? Is there anything preventing you from
taking the ball and running with it if you don't get elected into the
council?

And another one for "More direct democracy":

a) How would you decide what questions go up for public vote and which
ones stay with the council?

b) For questions like "- Should Python 3.x be stable?", isn't that for
team leads to decide? And for the council to resolve in case of
conflicts?

c) For questions like "- Should developer X be banned?", would you be
willing to do this if it meant a lot of washing of dirty linen in
public, or protracted flamewars (and other reasons why we have a bunch
of level-headed people in place to deal with this calmly and quietly)?
If no, where would you draw the line? If yes, how would you deal with
the fallout?

Regards,
--
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)
 
Old 06-22-2010, 05:15 AM
Arun Raghavan
 
Default Council manifesto of sping

On 22 June 2010 03:06, Sebastian Pipping <sping@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> """ (w.r.t. git migration)
>> I hope to see Robin integrate me with the conversion process.
>> """
>>
>> How have you contributed to the effort thus far?
>
> I would like to re-phrase this question to
> "how come you are able to help", okay?

That is not the question I asked. I would like to know why you have
chosen not to help with the effort so far and have not voiced your
opinion on gentoo-scm which is where the migration has been discussed,
even though it is clearly important to you.

In general, the way to participate in any open source project (and I
believe this holds for a team in Gentoo as well) is not - "You're
doing it wrong, let me show you how". It's a combination of, "How can
I help?" and "Why don't we try to do things this other way?"

Regards,
--
Arun Raghavan
http://arunraghavan.net/
(Ford_Prefect | Gentoo) & (arunsr | GNOME)
 

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