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Old 05-18-2010, 06:02 AM
"Andreas K. Huettel"
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

Hi everyone,

could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has reached 170
unassigned bugs...

Thanks a lot,
dilfridge

--
Dr. Andreas K. Huettel
Institute for Experimental and Applied Physics
University of Regensburg
D-93040 Regensburg
Germany

tel. +49 151 241 67748 (mobile)
e-mail mail@akhuettel.de
http://www.akhuettel.de/research/
 
Old 05-25-2010, 06:24 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On Tuesday 18 May 2010 02:02:01 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:
> could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has reached
> 170 unassigned bugs...

people dont seem to realize that bug-wranglers isnt just for re-assigning to
the proper maintainer. they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user
feedback, as well as cleaning up the bug. i shouldnt be seeing bugs assigned
to maintainers that have "${PN}-1.ebuild" as their subject, nor bugs that lack
basic things like `emerge --info` or build logs.
-mike
 
Old 05-25-2010, 06:46 PM
Matti Bickel
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On 05/25/2010 08:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user feedback

Can you be more specific? I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd
like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them.
If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If
that's not wanted, let me know.
 
Old 05-25-2010, 07:33 PM
Richard Freeman
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On 05/25/2010 02:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:

On Tuesday 18 May 2010 02:02:01 Andreas K. Huettel wrote:

could you please help the poor bug wranglers a bit?! The queue has reached
170 unassigned bugs...


people dont seem to realize that bug-wranglers isnt just for re-assigning to
the proper maintainer. they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user
feedback, as well as cleaning up the bug. i shouldnt be seeing bugs assigned
to maintainers that have "${PN}-1.ebuild" as their subject, nor bugs that lack
basic things like `emerge --info` or build logs.


As long as the status quo works I don't think we need to change it.
However if we are running into issues with keeping up it might make
sense to just have wranglers do assignments to maintainers and let the
maintainers deal with the rest.


The reason is that the maintainer might be able to spot dups much more
readily, or spot obvious solutions to bugs, where a wrangler might be
hunting around.


By all means wranglers should do what they can when they can, but keep
in mind that if you yell at a wrangler any time they "do it wrong" a
natural response of devs will be to not bother with bug wrangling or
just looking for their own bugs in the list.


I'm not necessarily proposing any changes here, but in general we need
to be careful about barriers to entry in projects that are undermanned.


Rich
 
Old 05-25-2010, 07:33 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:46:01 Matti Bickel wrote:
> On 05/25/2010 08:24 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > they are supposed to be doing basic triage, user feedback
>
> Can you be more specific?

i posted some specific examples already ... a little double checking of
reports and suggestion of basic debugging steps (strace/whatever) would be
nice, but i can let that slide since this is a bit more package specific.

> I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd
> like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them.
> If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If
> that's not wanted, let me know.

i dont feel like this should go to the maintainer yet. if a report is missing
something that the maintainer needs, it isnt ready for them to look at. so
wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers, and close as
NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then be re-opened and
moved to the maintainer.
-mike
 
Old 05-25-2010, 08:08 PM
Harald van Dijk
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 03:33:33PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:46:01 Matti Bickel wrote:
> > I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd
> > like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them.
> > If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If
> > that's not wanted, let me know.
>
> i dont feel like this should go to the maintainer yet. if a report is missing
> something that the maintainer needs, it isnt ready for them to look at. so
> wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers, and close as
> NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then be re-opened and
> moved to the maintainer.

No, don't close as NEEDINFO, mark as ASSIGNED. NEEDINFO bugs cannot be
reopened by other users, even if they provide the requested information.
NEEDINFO bugs are also easily forgotten about when the reporter forgets
to reopen the bug him/herself. Plus, it's in the docs anyway.

"Do not assume that the reporter ought to know how to report bugs. An
omitted `emerge --info' does not call for a public flogging, it simply
calls for the missing `emerge --info'. Even experienced reporters make
mistakes, so simply request the information, mark the bug as ASSIGNED
and wait for the information you requested."

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/bug-wranglers/index.xml
 
Old 05-25-2010, 08:09 PM
Matti Bickel
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On 05/25/2010 09:33 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> i posted some specific examples already ...

Sure enough. Just wanted to know if there's more to it than build.log
and emerge --info. I'll try to extract something more than that next
time. Goes w/o saying that bug cleanup should be done prior
to assignments.

> so wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers, and
> close as NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then be
> re-opened and moved to the maintainer. -mike

Good enough for me. The intention behind the immediate assignments was
the hope that maintainers could figure out the error from the already
provided info ("does not work" won't get assigned), netting quicker
reaction times.
 
Old 05-25-2010, 08:21 PM
Matti Bickel
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On 05/25/2010 10:08 PM, Harald van Dijk wrote:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/qa/bug-wranglers/index.xml

Cool, I clearly not up to date here, I've never thought this to be a
project. Thanks for the link.

Wrt mentioning metadata.xml for herd lookup in there: I've found
willikins' meta -v (in a query, mind you) saves me a few keystrokes.
 
Old 05-25-2010, 08:25 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On Tuesday 25 May 2010 16:08:55 Harald van Dijk wrote:
> On Tue, May 25, 2010 at 03:33:33PM -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Tuesday 25 May 2010 14:46:01 Matti Bickel wrote:
> > > I wrangle bugs when there's a need and I'd
> > > like to hear what maintainers want to see on a bug assigned to them.
> > > If info is missing I usually ask for it and assign the bug anyway. If
> > > that's not wanted, let me know.
> >
> > i dont feel like this should go to the maintainer yet. if a report is
> > missing something that the maintainer needs, it isnt ready for them to
> > look at. so wranglers ask for it, leave it assigned to bug-wranglers,
> > and close as NEEDINFO. when (if) things become available, it can then
> > be re-opened and moved to the maintainer.
>
> No, don't close as NEEDINFO, mark as ASSIGNED. NEEDINFO bugs cannot be
> reopened by other users, even if they provide the requested information.
> NEEDINFO bugs are also easily forgotten about when the reporter forgets
> to reopen the bug him/herself.

and people on the wrangler alias see that traffic, so the state doesnt matter.
but i guess you're trying to cater to people who only scan the assigned list
rather than watching the e-mails sent to it.

> Plus, it's in the docs anyway.

then i guess i'll point this out to those who wrangle these things to
maintainers w/out following the docs. thanks.
-mike
 
Old 05-25-2010, 09:06 PM
Matti Bickel
 
Default bug wrangler queue is large...

On 05/25/2010 10:08 PM, Harald van Dijk wrote:
> NEEDINFO bugs cannot be reopened by other users, even if they provide
> the requested information.

I utterly fail at finding documentation on that. I've recently hit a
problem where a user couldn't reopen a RESO FIXED bug, too. Are bugzi
permissions documented somewhere?
 

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