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Old 04-10-2010, 02:00 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

On Saturday 10 April 2010 16:53:48 Petteri Ršty wrote:
> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
>
> Regards,
> Petteri
That's not a good reaction from your side. Independent projects can handle the
incoming manpower themselves.

The whole point behind the web page redevelopment is that none is showing to
users or developers a clear way to get involved with it. Who is resposible for
the webpage? How can somebody get involved? etc. I can't event answer these
questions myself being a developer for more than a year.
--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
 
Old 04-10-2010, 02:09 PM
"Vincent-Xavier JUMEL"
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

Le samedi 10 avril 2010 15:53:48, Petteri Ršty a ťcrit :
> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
>
Since I'm quite new to this list, I'll start by a quick presentation.

I'm a french math teacher who loves computer science and Free Software. I've
discovered Gentoo circa 2004 at school and since then it perfectly matches my
needs and way of thinking.

I'm writing some personal ebuilds that I've never took time to clean up and
upload to sunrise since it works for me. You may find a sympa ebuild at my
personal repo[1]

I'm not sure I've enough time to involve myself as a Gentoo developer (even if
a maintain my own sympa ebuild and other) but I want to help Gentoo project.

I could easily donate some time, but I don't know where to begin, so I'm glad
of your offer to direct me to something useful.

Cheers

[1] : http://redmine.thetys-retz.net/projects/overlay

P.S. Sorry, this web page is still in French as my signature
--
Rejoignez les 5462 adhťrents de l'April <http://www.april.org/adherer>
Toile-Libre <http://toile-libre.org>, hťbergement libre ŗ prix libre
+33 (0) 148 295 997 <http://blog.thetys-retz.net/>
GPG Id: EBEC C39A DAAE F766 9785 EF23 E76F 467D 2E14 CE70
 
Old 04-10-2010, 02:11 PM
Petteri Ršty
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

On 04/10/2010 05:00 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> On Saturday 10 April 2010 16:53:48 Petteri Ršty wrote:
>> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
>> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
>> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
>> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole like the web page redesign.
>> Basically you tell me how many hours you have and I'll give you stuff to
>> work on. It might not be glorious at times like cleaning up a piece of
>> documentation but why not spend an hour a week on something that
>> benefits the project? If people are interested, I'll work out the details.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Petteri
> That's not a good reaction from your side. Independent projects can handle the
> incoming manpower themselves.
>

There's a lot of small tedious tasks that won't get done without
something like this. I see remarks about our documentation being
scattered. Please suggest a better way to solve that then.

> The whole point behind the web page redevelopment is that none is showing to
> users or developers a clear way to get involved with it. Who is resposible for
> the webpage? How can somebody get involved? etc. I can't event answer these
> questions myself being a developer for more than a year.

I thought I was offering to help people to get involved.

Regards,
Petteri
 
Old 04-10-2010, 02:38 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

On 10 April 2010 15:53, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole

I am willing to follow real leaders, who inspire and lead by example,
in the words of Ann Marie E. McSwain, Assistant Professor at Lincoln
University, “leadership is about capacity: the capacity of leaders to
listen and observe, to use their expertise as a starting point to
encourage dialogue between all levels of decision-making, to establish
processes and transparency in decision-making, to articulate their own
values and visions clearly but not impose them. Leadership is about
setting and not just reacting to agendas, identifying problems, and
initiating change that makes for substantial improvement rather than
managing change.‚ÄĚ (quoted from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership)

You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.

No cheers this time,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead
 
Old 04-10-2010, 02:44 PM
Petteri Räty
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

On 04/10/2010 05:38 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 10 April 2010 15:53, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
>> action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
>> as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
>> whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole
>
> I am willing to follow real leaders, who inspire and lead by example,
> in the words of Ann Marie E. McSwain, Assistant Professor at Lincoln
> University, “leadership is about capacity: the capacity of leaders to
> listen and observe, to use their expertise as a starting point to
> encourage dialogue between all levels of decision-making, to establish
> processes and transparency in decision-making, to articulate their own
> values and visions clearly but not impose them. Leadership is about
> setting and not just reacting to agendas, identifying problems, and
> initiating change that makes for substantial improvement rather than
> managing change.‚ÄĚ (quoted from
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership)
>
> You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.
>
> No cheers this time,

We can change the word to managed then. In Finnish there is only one
word for both btw.

Regards,
Petteri
 
Old 04-10-2010, 07:27 PM
Denis Dupeyron
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

Ben,

Petteri was proposing an idea. He is being creative and is trying to
help. The only way of knowing if his idea is good is to discuss it and
later try it if people are interested.

You, on the other hand, have lately been increasingly critical (which
is good) but not constructively. You obviously have a lot of energy
but at no point have you offered your contribution. You haven't
offered to help the teams you've been criticizing and you haven't
proposed any real idea (website redesign, recruiters). Also you're
criticizing without knowing what is happening when the information is
publicly available (you're asking for a discussion on the metadata
idea and it was a topic last month, the devrel issue is being tackled
and it started before your rant).

On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I am willing to follow real leaders

Willing to follow? Wow, that's ballsy. Now I understand why you needed
to tell the world about it.

> who inspire and lead by example,

There are lots of good role models to follow in Gentoo. All those who
work their ass off trying to make this distribution better, and use
the mailing lists as a tool to share ideas but not for immature
political rantings.

> You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.
>
> No cheers this time,

And you've shown a striking lack of respect for somebody who's been so
dedicated to Gentoo for more time than you've been a developer, and
without whom you wouldn't even be a developer as he was your
recruiter. This is so wrong.

Credibility is among these things which take a long and hard work to
build up and can completely blow up at any time. Don't waste yours.

Denis.
 
Old 04-10-2010, 08:17 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

On 10 April 2010 21:27, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> Petteri was proposing an idea. He is being creative

You call that creative? It seems you don't know what the word means.

> You, on the other hand, have lately been increasingly critical (which
> is good) but not constructively. You obviously have a lot of energy
> but at no point have you offered your contribution. You haven't
> offered to help the teams you've been criticizing and you haven't
> proposed any real idea (website redesign, recruiters).

I guess I was hallucinating that I started the wiki project, which has
been a popular request for as long as I can remember. I guess I
imagined I worked together with Markos to start the proxy-maintainer
project to improve visibility of that option to contribute. And I must
have been dreaming that I sent a mail about forming a team to review
and renew the recruitment process and curriculum. I must be mistaken
in thinking I have proposed to centralize all developer documentation
into one place. Oh, and forgive me for not publicly announcing that I
sent a mail to the dormant webteam about joining and offering my help.
And asking for leadership on issues that affect Gentoo on a wider
scale is not constructive?

Or maybe you are wrong about those things. Maybe you are not noticing
my contributions?

> Also you're
> criticizing without knowing what is happening when the information is
> publicly available (you're asking for a discussion on the metadata
> idea and it was a topic last month,

It is exactly because I know what council decided about the metadata
idea that I spoke up and asked for a reconsideration, giving some (in
my eyes) good arguments as to why you should. But I guess your reading
comprehension isn't that stellar either.

> the devrel issue is being tackled and it started before your rant).

To my knowledge there was no public announcement about that, other
than that we have another lead now.

> Credibility is among these things which take a long and hard work to
> build up and can completely blow up at any time.

Indeed. And you have now completely blown yours.

I am still hoping for a better Gentoo and volunteering to make that
happen. I hope you do too. So step up to the task and be a real
leader, which is what you were elected to do. Or, if you are unable or
unwilling to do so, step down and make room for somebody else who is
more qualified for the job.

--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead
 
Old 04-10-2010, 08:56 PM
Petteri Ršty
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

On 04/10/2010 11:17 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> On 10 April 2010 21:27, Denis Dupeyron <calchan@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> Ben,
>>
>> Petteri was proposing an idea. He is being creative
>
> You call that creative? It seems you don't know what the word means.
>

You don't have to take any part in the experiment but will you benefit
anything by posting a negatively toned comment to this thread?

>
> I guess I was hallucinating that I started the wiki project, which has
> been a popular request for as long as I can remember. I guess I
> imagined I worked together with Markos to start the proxy-maintainer
> project to improve visibility of that option to contribute. And I must
> have been dreaming that I sent a mail about forming a team to review
> and renew the recruitment process and curriculum. I must be mistaken
> in thinking I have proposed to centralize all developer documentation
> into one place. Oh, and forgive me for not publicly announcing that I
> sent a mail to the dormant webteam about joining and offering my help.
> And asking for leadership on issues that affect Gentoo on a wider
> scale is not constructive?
>

Yes all valuable contributions and hopefully you keep on that road.

>
> To my knowledge there was no public announcement about that, other
> than that we have another lead now.
>

Because there's not much to announce. You expect us to announce that are
trying to be effective now? I don't think we tried to be inefficient
earlier. The only thing changed visible to outside is lining our policy
to agree with GLEP 48. It's the job of the lead to make sure the project
does it's work as it's supposed to.

Regards,
Petteri
 
Old 04-10-2010, 09:06 PM
Steve Rosiak
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

right.

Am Samstag, 10. April 2010 16:38:13 schrieb Ben de Groot:
> On 10 April 2010 15:53, Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > As people seem to want the council to take action I offer to take
> > action. As it's impossible for me to do everything myself I offer to act
> > as a project manager/owner for people willing to donate their time to
> > whatever I see worthy for Gentoo as whole
>
> I am willing to follow real leaders, who inspire and lead by example,
> in the words of Ann Marie E. McSwain, Assistant Professor at Lincoln
> University, “leadership is about capacity: the capacity of leaders to
> listen and observe, to use their expertise as a starting point to
> encourage dialogue between all levels of decision-making, to establish
> processes and transparency in decision-making, to articulate their own
> values and visions clearly but not impose them. Leadership is about
> setting and not just reacting to agendas, identifying problems, and
> initiating change that makes for substantial improvement rather than
> managing change.‚ÄĚ (quoted from
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership)
>
> You've just shown a striking lack of such leadership.
>
> No cheers this time,
>
 
Old 04-10-2010, 09:18 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default Who is willing to be lead?

On 10 April 2010 22:56, Petteri Ršty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> I guess I was hallucinating that I started the wiki project, which has
>> been a popular request for as long as I can remember. I guess I
>> imagined I worked together with Markos to start the proxy-maintainer
>> project to improve visibility of that option to contribute. And I must
>> have been dreaming that I sent a mail about forming a team to review
>> and renew the recruitment process and curriculum. I must be mistaken
>> in thinking I have proposed to centralize all developer documentation
>> into one place. Oh, and forgive me for not publicly announcing that I
>> sent a mail to the dormant webteam about joining and offering my help.
>> And asking for leadership on issues that affect Gentoo on a wider
>> scale is not constructive?
>>
>
> Yes all valuable contributions and hopefully you keep on that road.

Not if you think it is okay for Calchan to insult me the way he did.


--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Qt project lead developer
Gentoo Wiki project lead
 

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