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Old 03-31-2010, 05:28 AM
Alec Warner
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

Hello,

Currently a number of developers have engaged Google Apps Team Edition
for gentoo.org. However Team Edition does not come with gmail and a
subset of Team Edition users would like to host their gentoo.org mail
on gmail.
Activating Standard Edition is free and likely requires minimal
configuration on dev.gentoo.org to setup. Standard Edition comes with
Google Docs, Google Calendar, Google Mail, Google Sites, Google Video,
and probably a bunch of other stuff we could turn on.

This service would be opt-in (only devs that want an account get one).
Infra should continue to offer standard mail services on
smtp.gentoo.org.

All content that is what I would term 'of value' to the community
should be available anonymously; that is you should not need to sign
up for a Google Account to be able to access documents in a read-only
fashion. Writing documents will require sign-in (similarly to how the
calendar works in a previous thread.)

This thread is primarily engaged in gauging interest in such a setup.
Please reply if you are interested (or go vote on the bug.)

[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/312037

-A
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:11 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

On Wednesday 31 March 2010 01:28:56 Alec Warner wrote:
> Currently a number of developers have engaged Google Apps Team Edition
> for gentoo.org. However Team Edition does not come with gmail and a
> subset of Team Edition users would like to host their gentoo.org mail
> on gmail.
> Activating Standard Edition is free and likely requires minimal
> configuration on dev.gentoo.org to setup. Standard Edition comes with
> Google Docs, Google Calendar, Google Mail, Google Sites, Google Video,
> and probably a bunch of other stuff we could turn on.

i dont really know anything about these Google things you refer to. could you
provide URLs and/or some summary background ?

personally, i just created a dedicated gmail account and set my dev.g.o
forward to that. then i fetch the mail from gmail's pop interface. how do
these offerings provide anything over that sort of setup ?
-mike
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:24 AM
Alec Warner
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wednesday 31 March 2010 01:28:56 Alec Warner wrote:
>> Currently a number of developers have engaged Google Apps Team Edition
>> for gentoo.org. *However Team Edition does not come with gmail and a
>> subset of Team Edition users would like to host their gentoo.org mail
>> on gmail.
>> Activating Standard Edition is free and likely requires minimal
>> configuration on dev.gentoo.org to setup. *Standard Edition comes with
>> Google Docs, Google Calendar, Google Mail, Google Sites, Google Video,
>> and probably a bunch of other stuff we could turn on.
>
> i dont really know anything about these Google things you refer to. *could you
> provide URLs and/or some summary background ?

Well you know about calendar since you use it ;p

The corporate spiel is here.

http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/group/index.html

>
> personally, i just created a dedicated gmail account and set my dev.g.o
> forward to that. *then i fetch the mail from gmail's pop interface. *how do
> these offerings provide anything over that sort of setup ?
> -mike
>

That requires giving gmail your pop password which not everyone likes.
In this setup you could use your d.g.o procmail to forward mail to
something like 'google-hosted.mail.gentoo.org' which would stuff it in
gentoo.org gmail account and you gentoo.org account could be your
d.g.o password, or something different.

-A

PS: I am affiliated with Google, but I don't get sales bonuses. This
thread is in response to a random request I received from another
developer.
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:47 AM
Alec Warner
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

Brian suggested I give more details, so here is more information

23:36 < ferringb> antarus: why are we getting it for free offhand?
23:36 < ferringb> well, getting this moreso
23:37 < ferringb> (yes, I will look a gift horse in the mouth- it can
quickly become a cash-sinkhole if the horse hasn't had proper dental
mantenance)
23:37 < ferringb> or something equivalent. either way, what prompted all this?
23:40 < antarus> ferringb: RANDOMGUY emailed me
23:40 < antarus> Standard Edition is free
23:40 < antarus> and we are a non-profit so Educational Edition is also free
23:41 < ferringb> haven't heard that name in a long while
23:41 < antarus> yeah
23:41 < ferringb> presume you're refering to the user
23:41 < antarus> anyway we have 4 devs on 'team edition' right now
23:41 < antarus> so I wanted to gauge interest
23:41 < ferringb> team edition is wat?
23:41 < antarus> ferringb: individual domain users sign up but haev no
domain admin
23:41 < antarus> limited doc sharing stuff, no email, etc...
23:42 < ferringb> 'k
23:42 < ferringb> so...
23:42 < ferringb> why don't you go write a *proper* response to spanky
w/ this info instead of a freaking link?
23:42 < ferringb> ya lazy bastard?
23:42 < antarus> I'm le tired, I will nap and then fire ze missiles?

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> On Wednesday 31 March 2010 01:28:56 Alec Warner wrote:
>>> Currently a number of developers have engaged Google Apps Team Edition
>>> for gentoo.org. *However Team Edition does not come with gmail and a
>>> subset of Team Edition users would like to host their gentoo.org mail
>>> on gmail.
>>> Activating Standard Edition is free and likely requires minimal
>>> configuration on dev.gentoo.org to setup. *Standard Edition comes with
>>> Google Docs, Google Calendar, Google Mail, Google Sites, Google Video,
>>> and probably a bunch of other stuff we could turn on.
>>
>> i dont really know anything about these Google things you refer to. *could you
>> provide URLs and/or some summary background ?
>
> Well you know about calendar since you use it ;p
>
> The corporate spiel is here.
>
> http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/group/index.html
>
>>
>> personally, i just created a dedicated gmail account and set my dev.g.o
>> forward to that. *then i fetch the mail from gmail's pop interface. *how do
>> these offerings provide anything over that sort of setup ?
>> -mike
>>
>
> That requires giving gmail your pop password which not everyone likes.
> *In this setup you could use your d.g.o procmail to forward mail to
> something like 'google-hosted.mail.gentoo.org' which would stuff it in
> gentoo.org gmail account and you gentoo.org account could be your
> d.g.o password, or something different.
>
> -A
>
> PS: I am affiliated with Google, but I don't get sales bonuses. *This
> thread is in response to a random request I received from another
> developer.
>
 
Old 03-31-2010, 06:58 AM
Duncan
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

Alec Warner posted on Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:28:56 -0700 as excerpted:

> All content that is what I would term 'of value' to the community should
> be available anonymously; that is you should not need to sign up for a
> Google Account to be able to access documents in a read-only fashion.
> Writing documents will require sign-in (similarly to how the calendar
> works in a previous thread.)

Thanks for taking care to verify and state that, this time. =:^)

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
 
Old 03-31-2010, 08:18 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

On Wednesday 31 March 2010 02:24:24 Alec Warner wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 11:11 PM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > On Wednesday 31 March 2010 01:28:56 Alec Warner wrote:
> >> Currently a number of developers have engaged Google Apps Team Edition
> >> for gentoo.org. However Team Edition does not come with gmail and a
> >> subset of Team Edition users would like to host their gentoo.org mail
> >> on gmail.
> >> Activating Standard Edition is free and likely requires minimal
> >> configuration on dev.gentoo.org to setup. Standard Edition comes with
> >> Google Docs, Google Calendar, Google Mail, Google Sites, Google Video,
> >> and probably a bunch of other stuff we could turn on.
> >
> > i dont really know anything about these Google things you refer to.
> > could you provide URLs and/or some summary background ?
>
> Well you know about calendar since you use it ;p
>
> The corporate spiel is here.
>
> http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/group/index.html

yes, but i dont see what "Google Apps Team Edition" or "Standard Edition" gets
me vs me simply going to gmail.com and creating a new account ... same for the
calendar

> > personally, i just created a dedicated gmail account and set my dev.g.o
> > forward to that. then i fetch the mail from gmail's pop interface. how
> > do these offerings provide anything over that sort of setup ?
>
> That requires giving gmail your pop password which not everyone likes.
> In this setup you could use your d.g.o procmail to forward mail to
> something like 'google-hosted.mail.gentoo.org' which would stuff it in
> gentoo.org gmail account and you gentoo.org account could be your
> d.g.o password, or something different.

i'm already using ~/.forward which means mail still goes to mail.g.o and that
server takes care of forwarding it to my private gmail.com account. then my
mail client fetches it from gmail.com via the normal pop/imap methods. there
is no need to share passwords between gmail.com and g.o.

so i dont see what advantage this process ive been using for years has over
this method. they look pretty much equivalent.
-mike
 
Old 03-31-2010, 11:49 AM
Ben de Groot
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

On 31 March 2010 07:28, Alec Warner <antarus@gentoo.org> wrote:
> This thread is primarily engaged in gauging interest in such a setup.
> Please reply if you are interested (or go vote on the bug.)

I am definitely interested.

Cheers,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux Qt project lead developer
 
Old 03-31-2010, 04:11 PM
Joe Peterson
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

On 03/31/2010 02:18 AM, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> i'm already using ~/.forward which means mail still goes to mail.g.o and that
> server takes care of forwarding it to my private gmail.com account. then my
> mail client fetches it from gmail.com via the normal pop/imap methods. there
> is no need to share passwords between gmail.com and g.o.
>
> so i dont see what advantage this process ive been using for years has over
> this method. they look pretty much equivalent.
> -mike

Hey Mike,

You are right that what you are doing gives you the ability to use gmail
for this. However, there's one key thing that turning on Standard
Edition does:

It's a "Google Apps" account, not just a Gmail account. You cannot have
more than one gmail account open in your browser at one time - the
cookies are not separate. Whereas you *can* have your gmail and all of
your google apps accounts (in different domains) open at one time.

Those, like me, who have several google apps accounts (I have a personal
business one, a personal one, and a work one) can keep accounts separate
this way. Also, since it's the "gentoo.org" google apps account, the
email address looks the same as your gentoo address (rather than
foo-gentoo@gmail.com, etc.).

What Alec was asking is why not turn on the feature. It just enables
more functionality for those who want to use it. It just requires we
verify that we "own" gentoo.org.

-Joe
 
Old 03-31-2010, 07:40 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

On Wednesday 31 March 2010 12:11:30 Joe Peterson wrote:
> It's a "Google Apps" account, not just a Gmail account. You cannot have
> more than one gmail account open in your browser at one time - the
> cookies are not separate. Whereas you *can* have your gmail and all of
> your google apps accounts (in different domains) open at one time.

OK

> Those, like me, who have several google apps accounts (I have a personal
> business one, a personal one, and a work one) can keep accounts separate
> this way. Also, since it's the "gentoo.org" google apps account, the
> email address looks the same as your gentoo address (rather than
> foo-gentoo@gmail.com, etc.).

this too has been doable forever. gmail has had a feature where you can set
the From: address to any e-maill address once you "verified" it was your e-
mail address.

> What Alec was asking is why not turn on the feature. It just enables
> more functionality for those who want to use it. It just requires we
> verify that we "own" gentoo.org.

i'm not against the idea, i was just wondering what the point was
-mike
 
Old 03-31-2010, 08:28 PM
Sebastian Pipping
 
Default RFC: Google Apps Standard Edition @ gentoo.org

Hello,


On 03/31/10 07:28, Alec Warner wrote:
> Currently a number of developers have engaged Google Apps Team Edition
> for gentoo.org. However Team Edition does not come with gmail and a
> subset of Team Edition users would like to host their gentoo.org mail
> on gmail.
> Activating Standard Edition is free and likely requires minimal
> configuration on dev.gentoo.org to setup. Standard Edition comes with
> Google Docs, Google Calendar, Google Mail, Google Sites, Google Video,
> and probably a bunch of other stuff we could turn on.

I am worried that if people start using say Google Docs for
collaborating on Gentoo content, everyone else is forced to use Google
Docs to participate.

While I do appreciate projects like TechTalks and Summer of Code I
personally do not trust Google with my data. Also, most of these
services are not Free Software -- I don't trust non-free software.
If they are let's run our instance, not theirs.
if they aren't lets go for something else.

Btw if we really need a shared web-calendar let's make a project for
that and get it done. Ironically, it may even fit for GSOC.


> This service would be opt-in (only devs that want an account get one).
> Infra should continue to offer standard mail services on
> smtp.gentoo.org.

As mentioned before: Opt-in is an illusion from the point on, where
people need the same piece of software to collaborate. May not apply to
some (Google Mail) but sure does to others.


> This thread is primarily engaged in gauging interest in such a setup.
> Please reply if you are interested (or go vote on the bug.)

To be very clear: Please take my vote against increasing dependencies on
Google.

On a side note: This is not a technical discussion only.
As such please use gentoo-core for this next time. Thanks.



Sebastian
 

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