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Old 03-18-2010, 03:29 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

Dear fellow developers,



A new project is about to start so I am requesting your feedback



The primary goal of the Proxy Maintainers[1] project is to create and maintain relationships between developers and users in order to ensure packages in the Gentoo tree stay up to date. This involves a few main tasks:





List Interested Developers who are interested in being Commiters.
Recruit Interested Users for Proxy Maintainers.
Commiter/Proxy Maintainer Training.
Maintain a list of pairings between Commiters/Proxy Maintainers.


Users who are willing to take care of a package will contact the developer who is interesting in the respective category. The developer and the user will work on the ebuild before they commit it to portage tree.



I kinda need some feedback wrt the following topics:



1) Should we use a new overlay? A new branch on sunrise? or work ebuilds in Gentoo bugzilla?I think the latter is the best

2) I think an email alias is not needed We can "monitor" maintainer-wanted/-needed alias if needed. What do you think?

3) Maybe a new KEYWORD needs to be added on bugzilla so ppl get informed that the specific bug is already taking by another developer and that somebody is working on it. So marking a bug with a keyword e.g. "PROXY" might be useful.



Goals:

Well, apparently the main goal is to extend what we already do on Sunrise. Pick up interesting packages without the need to maintain them actively.We will only be a "proxy" between portage and users. I think this is a good way to attract new developers who will get excited seeing their ebuilds going directly to portage tree, plus an excellent way to pick up important packages from the huge maintainer-wanted list which is getting bigger and bigger every day. I know there are active users who have a significant ebuild knowledge and this is a good way to enforce their skills and motivate them.



Gentoo has a powerful user base and we should take advantage of it



Comments?



[1]http://dev.gentoo.org/~hwoarang/proxy/

--

Markos Chandras (hwoarang)

Gentoo Linux Developer

Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
 
Old 03-18-2010, 04:13 PM
Alexis Ballier
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

Hey,

IMHO, [1] is not clear if you don't already know what proxy
maintainance is

> 1) Should we use a new overlay? A new branch on sunrise? or work
> ebuilds in Gentoo bugzilla?I think the latter is the best

usually i use bugzilla at first then the good old mail vcs

> 2) I think an email alias is not needed We can "monitor"
> maintainer-wanted/- needed alias if needed. What do you think?

maybe it'd be nice to have one, see later

> 3) Maybe a new KEYWORD needs to be added on bugzilla so ppl get
> informed that the specific bug is already taking by another developer
> and that somebody is working on it. So marking a bug with a keyword
> e.g. "PROXY" might be useful.

4) add a keyword in bugzilla for users to specify they are willing to
be proxy maintainers (that's where a mail alias could be useful)


Alexis.
 
Old 03-18-2010, 04:24 PM
Sébastien Fabbro
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On Thursday 18 March, Markos Chandras wrote:

> 1) Should we use a new overlay? A new branch on sunrise? or work
> ebuilds in Gentoo bugzilla?I think the latter is the best
> 2) I think an email alias is not needed We can "monitor"
> maintainer-wanted/- needed alias if needed. What do you think?
> 3) Maybe a new KEYWORD needs to be added on bugzilla so ppl get
> informed that the specific bug is already taking by another developer
> and that somebody is working on it. So marking a bug with a keyword
> e.g. "PROXY" might be useful.

0) Switch portage cvs tree to multiple git ones.

Sebastien
 
Old 03-18-2010, 04:50 PM
Patrick Lauer
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On 03/18/10 18:24, Sébastien Fabbro wrote:
> On Thursday 18 March, Markos Chandras wrote:
>
>> 1) Should we use a new overlay? A new branch on sunrise? or work
>> ebuilds in Gentoo bugzilla?I think the latter is the best
>> 2) I think an email alias is not needed We can "monitor"
>> maintainer-wanted/- needed alias if needed. What do you think?
>> 3) Maybe a new KEYWORD needs to be added on bugzilla so ppl get
>> informed that the specific bug is already taking by another developer
>> and that somebody is working on it. So marking a bug with a keyword
>> e.g. "PROXY" might be useful.
>
> 0) Switch portage cvs tree to
Sigh ... well, if "everyone" demands that ...

>multiple
... no, that's just silly. One tree to rule them all - we're even
folding the changes from the prefix project back in. Please don't
complexify things so they have enough Design ...

> git ones.
or something equivalent
 
Old 03-18-2010, 05:32 PM
justin
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On 18/03/10 18:24, Sébastien Fabbro wrote:
> On Thursday 18 March, Markos Chandras wrote:
>
>> 1) Should we use a new overlay? A new branch on sunrise? or work
>> ebuilds in Gentoo bugzilla?I think the latter is the best
>> 2) I think an email alias is not needed We can "monitor"
>> maintainer-wanted/- needed alias if needed. What do you think?
>> 3) Maybe a new KEYWORD needs to be added on bugzilla so ppl get
>> informed that the specific bug is already taking by another developer
>> and that somebody is working on it. So marking a bug with a keyword
>> e.g. "PROXY" might be useful.
>
> 0) Switch portage cvs tree to multiple git ones.

I take one, too.
 
Old 03-18-2010, 06:09 PM
Thomas Sachau
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On 03/18/2010 05:29 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> Dear fellow developers,
>
> A new project is about to start so I am requesting your feedback
>
> The primary goal of the Proxy Maintainers[1] project is to create and maintain
> relationships between developers and users in order to ensure packages in the
> Gentoo tree stay up to date. This involves a few main tasks:

Also it is a nice idea, i dont think, it will help Gentoo in the longer term. As i can see with the
Sunrise project, most users only want to get their ebuild initially into portage/sunrise. They also
listen to suggestions, improve their code and read a document to get access. But in most cases, they
only do the initial commit or initial commit+some version bumps before they leave again and the
ebuild is unmaintained.
I dont think, we want to proxy for those users, since this would result in either the proxy
maintaining the ebuilds or many more maintainer-needed ebuild in main tree.
The next group of users are those, who actively maintain their ebuild, also help other users and do
this for a longer time. Usually those users get a mentor offer sooner or later and then become a
Gentoo Developer. So for those users, who are willing to help and can do this for longer time
(requirements for Gentoo devs), sunrise is already a good starting point and base to get in.
The only case, where there might be a (minimal) profit are those rare users, who initially commit
their ebuild and maintain exactly and only this ebuild for a longer time. There might be 2 or 3
users doing it this way, so creating just another project for this idea is imho a bit too much work
for minimal profit.

I think, it might be better to send the interested users so Sunrise, where they can learn the basics
and afterwards you could still offer them to proxy the ebuild (sunrise has an extra branch for proxy
maintainers).
A much better idea is imho to make the idea and way of Sunrise more public and easier to see without
searching (Homepage, FAQ, Forums), so interested users can find it easier. In addition, every dev,
who is interested in proxy maintaining something can do this via Sunrise.



--
Thomas Sachau

Gentoo Linux Developer
 
Old 03-18-2010, 07:29 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On Thursday 18 March 2010 21:09:43 Thomas Sachau wrote:
> On 03/18/2010 05:29 PM, Markos Chandras wrote:
> > Dear fellow developers,
> >
> > A new project is about to start so I am requesting your feedback
> >
> > The primary goal of the Proxy Maintainers[1] project is to create and
> > maintain relationships between developers and users in order to ensure
> > packages in the
>
> > Gentoo tree stay up to date. This involves a few main tasks:
> Also it is a nice idea, i dont think, it will help Gentoo in the longer
> term. As i can see with the Sunrise project, most users only want to get
> their ebuild initially into portage/sunrise. They also listen to
> suggestions, improve their code and read a document to get access. But in
> most cases, they only do the initial commit or initial commit+some version
> bumps before they leave again and the ebuild is unmaintained.
> I dont think, we want to proxy for those users, since this would result in
> either the proxy maintaining the ebuilds or many more maintainer-needed
> ebuild in main tree.
These users are not our target group. Our target group are highly motivated
users who are willing to see their ebuilds on portage tree, they just dont
know who to poke or contact us to make that happen. Some of them will be from
the Sunrise userbase since we have these kind of Gentoo users there
> The next group of users are those, who actively
> maintain their ebuild, also help other users and do this for a longer
> time. Usually those users get a mentor offer sooner or later and then
> become a Gentoo Developer.
Not always. I can remember at least 4 different occasions where it took them >1
year becoming a developer. Proxy-maintainer project is a good way to keep them
around without pushing them completing their quizzes
> So for those users, who are willing to help and
> can do this for longer time (requirements for Gentoo devs), sunrise is
> already a good starting point and base to get in.
Of course. But remember that we target different user group. Through this
project, we intend to lower the number of maintainer-wanted packages instead
of pushing them into an overlay. The difference is that, when a developer picks
a package from sunrise overlay, we maintains it by himself when he puts it to
portage tree. What we want to achieve here is to make users responsible for
their package in portage tree.
> The only case, where
> there might be a (minimal) profit are those rare users, who initially
> commit their ebuild and maintain exactly and only this ebuild for a longer
> time. There might be 2 or 3 users doing it this way, so creating just
> another project for this idea is imho a bit too much work for minimal
> profit.
Proxy-maintainer is not wide spread to users so they dont know this proxying
portage ebuilds is an option.
>
> I think, it might be better to send the interested users so Sunrise, where
> they can learn the basics and afterwards you could still offer them to
> proxy the ebuild (sunrise has an extra branch for proxy maintainers).
> A much better idea is imho to make the idea and way of Sunrise more public
> and easier to see without searching (Homepage, FAQ, Forums), so interested
> users can find it easier. In addition, every dev, who is interested in
> proxy maintaining something can do this via Sunrise.
Sunrise is an excellent place to train users. But we still to let them know
that they can control their ebuilds on portage through us. We need to let them
know what proxy-maintainer is and how to take advantage of it

Are you willing to to adjust the Sunrise page accordingly? Like listing info
about proxy maintainer thingie and possibly another column on the developer
project table listing our areas of interest? Something like merging the two
projects or extending the Sunrise one if you like

--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
 
Old 03-18-2010, 07:34 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On 18 March 2010 20:09, Thomas Sachau <tommy@gentoo.org> wrote:
> The next group of users are those, who actively maintain
> their ebuild, also help other users and do this for a longer
> time. Usually those users get a mentor offer sooner or later
> and then become a Gentoo Developer.

Recruitment being the bottleneck that it is (with candidates
waiting many months), it is good to have another option
for people who want to contribute. In my personal experience
proxy-maintenance is a good way into eventual devhood.
There is no reason not to promote the possibility of
proxy-maintenance.

Cheers,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux Qt project lead developer
 
Old 03-18-2010, 08:03 PM
Angelo Arrifano
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On 18-03-2010 18:24, Sébastien Fabbro wrote:
> On Thursday 18 March, Markos Chandras wrote:
>
>> 1) Should we use a new overlay? A new branch on sunrise? or work
>> ebuilds in Gentoo bugzilla?I think the latter is the best
>> 2) I think an email alias is not needed We can "monitor"
>> maintainer-wanted/- needed alias if needed. What do you think?
>> 3) Maybe a new KEYWORD needs to be added on bugzilla so ppl get
>> informed that the specific bug is already taking by another developer
>> and that somebody is working on it. So marking a bug with a keyword
>> e.g. "PROXY" might be useful.
>
> 0) Switch portage cvs tree to multiple git ones.

+1

This is exactly the case where the use of repository branching makes sense.

- Angelo
>
> Sebastien
>
 
Old 03-18-2010, 08:22 PM
Markos Chandras
 
Default : Proxy-maintainer project

On Thursday 18 March 2010 23:03:37 Angelo Arrifano wrote:
> On 18-03-2010 18:24, Sébastien Fabbro wrote:
> > On Thursday 18 March, Markos Chandras wrote:
> >> 1) Should we use a new overlay? A new branch on sunrise? or work
> >> ebuilds in Gentoo bugzilla?I think the latter is the best
> >> 2) I think an email alias is not needed We can "monitor"
> >> maintainer-wanted/- needed alias if needed. What do you think?
> >> 3) Maybe a new KEYWORD needs to be added on bugzilla so ppl get
> >> informed that the specific bug is already taking by another developer
> >> and that somebody is working on it. So marking a bug with a keyword
> >> e.g. "PROXY" might be useful.
> >
> > 0) Switch portage cvs tree to multiple git ones.
>
> +1
>
> This is exactly the case where the use of repository branching makes sense.
>
> - Angelo
>
> > Sebastien
Git migration may take quite a time. Recruit new developers takes a lot of
time as well. So this project may help us train new developers and make them
feel comfortable with gentoo internals
--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org
 

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