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Old 03-24-2010, 04:14 PM
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> > > As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
> > > that users who do not need python-3 should mask it locally to
> > > prevent it from being pulled into the dependency graph.
> >
> > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
>
> But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .

Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said that
they didn't object to have Python 3 installed.

--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:23 PM
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

2010-03-24 17:56:48 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> On 24 March 2010 17:43, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
> >> On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> >> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
> >> > I'm attaching updated news item, which will be committed soon.
> >>
> >> As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
> >> that users who do not need python-3 should mask it locally to
> >> prevent it from being pulled into the dependency graph.
> >
> > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
>
> Are you saying that you are just going to brush aside all
> concerns that have been voiced about this issue? You will
> upset a lot of people if you do that.

All valid concerns about text already included in the news item have been
addressed. We don't need to include any unofficial recommendations.
Proposed news item is better than no news item.

--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:32 PM
Joshua Saddler
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:14:44 +0100
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:

> 2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
> > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
> >
> > But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
>
> Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said that
> they didn't object to have Python 3 installed.

They're in the minority, judging by the replies in this thread.
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:35 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

On 24 March 2010 18:23, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
<Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
> 2010-03-24 17:56:48 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>> On 24 March 2010 17:43, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
>> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>> >> On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
>> >> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> >> > I'm attaching updated news item, which will be committed soon.
>> >>
>> >> As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
>> >> that users who do not need python-3 should mask it locally to
>> >> prevent it from being pulled into the dependency graph.
>> >
>> > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
>>
>> Are you saying that you are just going to brush aside all
>> concerns that have been voiced about this issue? You will
>> upset a lot of people if you do that.
>
> All valid concerns about text already included in the news item have been
> addressed. We don't need to include any unofficial recommendations.

I'll take that as a yes then, you are indeed disregarding the concerns
and recommendations of your fellow Gentoo developers.

CC'ing devrel because this is getting out of hand.
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux Qt project lead developer
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:36 PM
Alec Warner
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Joshua Saddler <nightmorph@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:14:44 +0100
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
>> 2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
>> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
>> > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> > > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
>> >
>> > But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
>>
>> Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said that
>> they didn't object to have Python 3 installed.
>
> They're in the minority, judging by the replies in this thread.
>

I am still of the mind that telling users python3 is here is
sufficient. Users should already know how to mask packages; I am
unconvinced that this update is any different from any other update
where I get a news item that foo is out; I don't want to use foo, so I
mask foo.

If you want to recommend masking python 3 yourself I suggest you blog about it.

-A
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:37 PM
Alec Warner
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On 24 March 2010 18:23, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>> 2010-03-24 17:56:48 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>>> On 24 March 2010 17:43, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
>>> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> > 2010-03-23 20:28:38 Ben de Groot napisał(a):
>>> >> On 23 March 2010 20:13, Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
>>> >> <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>>> >> > I'm attaching updated news item, which will be committed soon.
>>> >>
>>> >> As mentioned in the other thread, this news item should mention
>>> >> that users who do not need python-3 should mask it locally to
>>> >> prevent it from being pulled into the dependency graph.
>>> >
>>> > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
>>>
>>> Are you saying that you are just going to brush aside all
>>> concerns that have been voiced about this issue? You will
>>> upset a lot of people if you do that.
>>
>> All valid concerns about text already included in the news item have been
>> addressed. We don't need to include any unofficial recommendations.
>
> I'll take that as a yes then, you are indeed disregarding the concerns
> and recommendations of your fellow Gentoo developers.

Except he is under no obligation to follow said recommendations; he is
the Python maintainer, not you.

-A

>
> CC'ing devrel because this is getting out of hand.
> --
> Ben de Groot
> Gentoo Linux Qt project lead developer
>
>
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:41 PM
Doktor Notor
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:35:21 +0100
Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> wrote:


> I'll take that as a yes then, you are indeed disregarding the concerns
> and recommendations of your fellow Gentoo developers.
>
> CC'ing devrel because this is getting out of hand.

Looks like an extremely "productive" thread... /me points at the
dependency/python handling bugs filed by the python maintainer and
unfixed for like 2+ weeks
- http://tinyurl.com/yhlmcq8

I'd assume getting proper dependencies into the tree would make more
sense than this pissing contest about a news item.

Cheers,

DN
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:45 PM
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

2010-03-24 18:32:37 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:14:44 +0100
> Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
>
> > 2010-03-24 17:57:35 Joshua Saddler napisał(a):
> > > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:43:56 +0100
> > > Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis <Arfrever@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > > > Python maintainers do not recommend to mask Python 3.
> > >
> > > But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
> >
> > Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said that
> > they didn't object to have Python 3 installed.
>
> They're in the minority, judging by the replies in this thread.

People, who don't object to given suggestions, less often reply to them.

--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:47 PM
Jeremy Olexa
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:32:37 -0700, Joshua Saddler <nightmorph@gentoo.org>
wrote:
>> > But everyone else in Gentoo does, so . . .
>>
>> Some Gentoo developers/users, who aren't Python maintainers, said that
>> they didn't object to have Python 3 installed.
>
> They're in the minority, judging by the replies in this thread.

I hate to get into the mix of this, but I suggest researching on "vocal
minority" and/or "silent majority" - the most vocal ones on this thread are
the minority of the population. I'm not attacking anyone, mind you.

I haven't expressed anything on this thread but I'm ok with marking it
stable and having concerned users mask it. The stages might get kinda funky
with both python-2 and 3 on them, but..if they are not BROKEN, I don't
care.

-Jeremy
 
Old 03-24-2010, 04:51 PM
"Paweł Hajdan, Jr."
 
Default Python 3.1: Stabilization and news item

On 3/24/10 6:35 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>> All valid concerns about text already included in the news item have been
>> addressed. We don't need to include any unofficial recommendations.
>
> I'll take that as a yes then, you are indeed disregarding the concerns
> and recommendations of your fellow Gentoo developers.
>
> CC'ing devrel because this is getting out of hand.

I think it's a purely technical issue. The arguments against Python 3
are mostly in the form "I don't feel it's ready". If it can't be
resolved on the list (some people want Python 3, some don't), shouldn't
the council decide?

"The elected Gentoo Council decides on global issues and policies that
affect multiple projects in Gentoo."

Paweł Hajdan jr
 

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