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Old 03-01-2010, 08:53 PM
Dirkjan Ochtman
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 22:24, Ben de Groot <yngwin@gentoo.org> wrote:
> For some reason beyond my understanding, we have the cups useflag
> enabled by default in profiles.

I'm +1 on disabling it by default.

Cheers,

Dirkjan
 
Old 03-03-2010, 05:54 PM
Nirbheek Chauhan
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

On Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Mart Raudsepp <leio@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I don't think there was any such problem until poppler maintainers
> decided to unsplit poppler into one big packages with USE flags again
> instead of the nice split poppler, poppler-glib (that should have been
> named poppler-cairo probably instead), poppler-qt3, poppler-qt4 and
> poppler-utils.

Also of note is that we've made efforts to split packages to avoid
circular dependencies[1]. So it's really silly to add circular deps by
un-splitting packages.


1. http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=269747#c11

--
~Nirbheek Chauhan

Gentoo GNOME+Mozilla Team
 
Old 03-03-2010, 08:51 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

On 3 March 2010 19:45, Mart Raudsepp <leio@gentoo.org> wrote:
> I don't believe we should selectively cripple one GUI toolkit with not
> having proper printing support out of the box on a desktop profile,
> while others do, just because maintainers are lazy.

I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is
to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't
think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result
cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to
agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they
need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a
desktop system.

Cheers,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
__________________________________________________ ____
 
Old 03-03-2010, 09:02 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

On 3 March 2010 19:54, Nirbheek Chauhan <nirbheek@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Also of note is that we've made efforts to split packages to avoid
> circular dependencies[1]. So it's really silly to add circular deps by
> un-splitting packages.

I think it's silly to split packages for no good reason. And doing it to
avoid circular deps is only a good reason in extreme cases where
they can't be worked around in any other way. Standard Gentoo
practice is one ebuild per upstream package and useflags to toggle
optional functionality. I don't see any reason to deviate from that
practice in the case of poppler.

Cheers,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
__________________________________________________ ____
 
Old 03-03-2010, 10:18 PM
Nathan Zachary
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

On 03/03/10 15:51, Ben de Groot wrote:

On 3 March 2010 19:45, Mart Raudsepp <leio@gentoo.org> wrote:


I don't believe we should selectively cripple one GUI toolkit with not
having proper printing support out of the box on a desktop profile,
while others do, just because maintainers are lazy.



I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is
to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't
think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result
cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to
agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they
need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a
desktop system.

Cheers,


I agree that CUPS is not really
necessary in the desktop profile, and especially in the base profile.*
Many systems run desktop environments without needing printing
support.* As we advance further toward a paperless computing
experience, the need for printing support becomes even less.* And, as
it is incredibly simple to add print capabilities by placing the cups
USE flag in /etc/make.conf, that choice should be left to the user.



Regards,

Nathan Zachary
 
Old 03-04-2010, 12:53 AM
Dale
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

On 03/03/10 15:51, Ben de Groot wrote:

On 3 March 2010 19:45, Mart Raudsepp<leio@gentoo.org> wrote:


I don't believe we should selectively cripple one GUI toolkit with not
having proper printing support out of the box on a desktop profile,
while others do, just because maintainers are lazy.


I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is
to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't
think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result
cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to
agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they
need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a
desktop system.

Cheers,

I agree that CUPS is not really necessary in the desktop profile, and
especially in the base profile. Many systems run desktop environments
without needing printing support. As we advance further toward a
paperless computing experience, the need for printing support becomes
even less. And, as it is incredibly simple to add print capabilities
by placing the cups USE flag in /etc/make.conf, that choice should be
left to the user.


Regards,
Nathan Zachary


One could argue the opposite as well. Adding -cups to make.conf is just
as easy.


I'm one of those lowly users.

Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-04-2010, 12:57 AM
Nathan Zachary
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is
>>> to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't
>>> think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result
>>> cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to
>>> agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they
>>> need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a
>>> desktop system.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>> I agree that CUPS is not really necessary in the desktop profile, and
>> especially in the base profile. Many systems run desktop
>> environments without needing printing support. As we advance further
>> toward a paperless computing experience, the need for printing
>> support becomes even less. And, as it is incredibly simple to add
>> print capabilities by placing the cups USE flag in /etc/make.conf,
>> that choice should be left to the user.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Nathan Zachary
>
> One could argue the opposite as well. Adding -cups to make.conf is
> just as easy.
>
> I'm one of those lowly users.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>
I think that the point is that it is better to have it disabled by
default so that new users do not run into these circular dependencies
upon their first installation. They can then add cups to their
make.conf and emerge -avuDN world to get full printing support.

Just as a sidebar, there is not a "lowly user." Your input is greatly
important in all matters regarding Gentoo as you are a member of the
userbase. It's your operating system too!

Regards,
Nathan Zachary
 
Old 03-04-2010, 01:17 AM
Dale
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is


to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't
think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result
cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to
agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they
need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a
desktop system.

Cheers,



I agree that CUPS is not really necessary in the desktop profile, and
especially in the base profile. Many systems run desktop
environments without needing printing support. As we advance further
toward a paperless computing experience, the need for printing
support becomes even less. And, as it is incredibly simple to add
print capabilities by placing the cups USE flag in /etc/make.conf,
that choice should be left to the user.

Regards,
Nathan Zachary


One could argue the opposite as well. Adding -cups to make.conf is
just as easy.

I'm one of those lowly users.

Dale

:-) :-)



I think that the point is that it is better to have it disabled by
default so that new users do not run into these circular dependencies
upon their first installation. They can then add cups to their
make.conf and emerge -avuDN world to get full printing support.

Just as a sidebar, there is not a "lowly user." Your input is greatly
important in all matters regarding Gentoo as you are a member of the
userbase. It's your operating system too!

Regards,
Nathan Zachary




Let just think of it this way. I have to reinstall say from a dead hard
drive. I have copies of my make.conf and world file. I install my new
drive, download the tarball and unpack it. I copy over make.conf and
world. Naturally cups will be enabled. Then I sync and start to
update. Isn't that circular dependency still going to be there? After
all, this is how I install Gentoo even if from scratch. I set my USE
line before I start to emerge or update.


It seems to me, in my situation, this would not solve much. Maybe I am
incorrect in that.


Dale

:-) :-)
 
Old 03-04-2010, 01:24 AM
Nathan Zachary
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

On 03/03/10 20:17, Dale wrote:
chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:


I'm not talking about selectively disabling
cups. My proposal is


**


to no longer enable the cups useflag in
the base profile. I don't


think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result


cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to


agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they


need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a


desktop system.




Cheers,




********
I agree that CUPS is not really necessary in the desktop profile, and


especially in the base profile.* Many systems run desktop


environments without needing printing support.* As we advance further


toward a paperless computing experience, the need for printing


support becomes even less.* And, as it is incredibly simple to add


print capabilities by placing the cups USE flag in /etc/make.conf,


that choice should be left to the user.




Regards,


Nathan Zachary


******
One could argue the opposite as well.* Adding -cups to make.conf is


just as easy.




I'm one of those lowly users.




Dale




:-)* :-)




****
I think that the point is that it is better to have it disabled by


default so that new users do not run into these circular dependencies


upon their first installation.* They can then add cups to their


make.conf and emerge -avuDN world to get full printing support.




Just as a sidebar, there is not a "lowly user."* Your input is greatly


important in all matters regarding Gentoo as you are a member of the


userbase.* It's your operating system too!




Regards,


Nathan Zachary




**


Let just think of it this way.* I have to reinstall say from a dead
hard drive.* I have copies of my make.conf and world file.* I install
my new drive, download the tarball and unpack it.* I copy over
make.conf and world.* Naturally cups will be enabled.* Then I sync and
start to update.* Isn't that circular dependency still going to be
there?* After all, this is how I install Gentoo even if from scratch.*
I set my USE line before I start to emerge or update.




It seems to me, in my situation, this would not solve much.* Maybe I am
incorrect in that.




Dale




:-)* :-)





I believe the circular dependency is
solved if one emerges gtk+ (and possibly poppler?) without CUPS
support, and then goes back and emerges everything with CUPS.



Regards,

Nathan Zachary
 
Old 03-04-2010, 01:41 AM
Dale
 
Default Remove cups from default profile to solve circular deps

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

On 03/03/10 20:17, Dale wrote:

chrome://messenger/locale/messengercompose/composeMsgs.properties:

I'm not talking about selectively disabling cups. My proposal is

to no longer enable the cups useflag in the base profile. I don't
think cups should be part of the base profile, and as a result
cascading to the desktop profile. And a lot of people seem to
agree. Users can always enable that functionality when they
need it. It is not something that is necessary for running a
desktop system.

Cheers,


I agree that CUPS is not really necessary in the desktop profile, and
especially in the base profile. Many systems run desktop
environments without needing printing support. As we advance further
toward a paperless computing experience, the need for printing
support becomes even less. And, as it is incredibly simple to add
print capabilities by placing the cups USE flag in /etc/make.conf,
that choice should be left to the user.

Regards,
Nathan Zachary

One could argue the opposite as well. Adding -cups to make.conf is
just as easy.

I'm one of those lowly users.

Dale

:-) :-)


I think that the point is that it is better to have it disabled by
default so that new users do not run into these circular dependencies
upon their first installation. They can then add cups to their
make.conf and emerge -avuDN world to get full printing support.

Just as a sidebar, there is not a "lowly user." Your input is greatly
important in all matters regarding Gentoo as you are a member of the
userbase. It's your operating system too!

Regards,
Nathan Zachary



Let just think of it this way. I have to reinstall say from a dead
hard drive. I have copies of my make.conf and world file. I install
my new drive, download the tarball and unpack it. I copy over
make.conf and world. Naturally cups will be enabled. Then I sync
and start to update. Isn't that circular dependency still going to
be there? After all, this is how I install Gentoo even if from
scratch. I set my USE line before I start to emerge or update.


It seems to me, in my situation, this would not solve much. Maybe I
am incorrect in that.


Dale

:-) :-)

I believe the circular dependency is solved if one emerges gtk+ (and
possibly poppler?) without CUPS support, and then goes back and
emerges everything with CUPS.


Regards,
Nathan Zachary


So in the situation above, removing cups doesn't help any? The user
would still have to work around the dependency problem. Is there not a
better way to handle this?


Dale

:-) :-)
 

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