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Old 02-08-2010, 02:40 PM
William Hubbs
 
Default "X" vs "gtk" USE flags

Hi all,

On Mon, Feb 08, 2010 at 02:34:08PM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
> On 02/08/2010 02:11 PM, Christian Faulhammer wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Nikos Chantziaras<realnc@arcor.de>:
> >> A Gnome user probably has "X gtk -qt" in make.conf, while a KDE user
> >> has "X qt -gtk" in hope to have programs that support both Gtk and Qt
> >> being built with the toolkit that is more native to his DE. When a
> >> package has a GUI tool that is able to only use one of those
> >> toolkits, people who have it disabled in make.conf will get no GUI
> >> tool at all even though they have "X" in their USE flags.
> >
> > Your proposal does not look to appealing to me. What about people
> > trying to keep "pollution" down and avoid one or the other toolkit?
>
> This would mean that we favor one group of people over another :P

If a package can run in some form without a certain toolkit, why should
we force people to install that toolkit with the package? Imho that is
bloating their systems unnecessarily.

William
 
Old 02-08-2010, 05:26 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default "X" vs "gtk" USE flags

 
Old 02-08-2010, 05:28 PM
Ben de Groot
 
Default "X" vs "gtk" USE flags

On 8 February 2010 16:22, AllenJB <gentoo-lists@allenjb.me.uk> wrote:
> The current system caters perfectly for both people who want to avoid
> specific toolkits and those who don't care what toolkits they use.

I agree. The current system is best, in my opinion.

Cheers,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
__________________________________________________ ____
 
Old 02-08-2010, 06:21 PM
Nikos Chantziaras
 
Default "X" vs "gtk" USE flags

On 02/08/2010 05:22 PM, AllenJB wrote:

On 08/02/10 14:02, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

On 02/08/2010 03:41 PM, AllenJB wrote:

On 08/02/10 12:32, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:

On 02/08/2010 01:39 PM, Samuli Suominen wrote:

IMHO. USE="X" is for controlling X.org dependencies, not for avoiding
everything that deps on them, so I disagree.


I was under the impression that USE flags are for enabling/disabling
features, not for controlling deps. DEPEND and RDEPEND is, AFAIK, the
way to control deps.



Features influence dependencies. If you enable kde features the package
will require kde dependencies. So use flags and dependencies are
irrevocably linked.

What Samuli is saying is that the X flag should be specifically for X
(and not X-related, such as graphical libraries) features, while the kde
and gtk use flags should remain in use as they are. This way when you
see "X" as a use flag, you know it means "enable X features" and isn't
likely to pull in anything but X libraries, if you see "kde" you know it
means "enable kde features" and isn't likely to pull in anything but kde
libraries, and so on.


So I guess what I was really proposing then was a "gui" USE flag :P
Sorry about that, I didn't fully understand the meaning of the X flag.



And what purpose would this flag server that's not already covered by
using USE="X fltk qt gtk kde gnome" (and possibly a couple of others
I've forgotten about) - which are all already in the desktop profile,
which the vast majority of people who don't care what toolkit they get
will already be using anyway?


I'm confused. First there's talk about HTPC people and now about people
who have all USE flags enabled.


Why do you always have to pick the extremes? The majority set it up
like this:


"X kde qt4 -gnome -gtk"

and

"X gnome gtk -kde -qt4"



The current system caters perfectly for both people who want to avoid
specific toolkits and those who don't care what toolkits they use.


I saw a problem with using "gtk" with stuff where gtk isn't actually
optional and what is really meant by that use flag is not "provide the
gtk version of the GUI", but "provide the only available GUI; happens to
be Gtk".


But since most people think that's the way to go, I'm obviously wrong.
In any event, there's no need to continue this discussion.
 
Old 02-08-2010, 08:39 PM
Jeroen Roovers
 
Default "X" vs "gtk" USE flags

On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 13:11:31 +0100
Christian Faulhammer <fauli@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Your proposal does not look to appealing to me. What about people
> trying to keep "pollution" down and avoid one or the other toolkit?

Some packages don't use a USE flag to pull those in, since the toolkit
dependency isn't optional for those package, so disabling a USE flag
wouldn't help there. Instead you would package.mask the toolkit
dependencies (=x11-libs/gtk+-1.2* for one).


Regards,
jer
 

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