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-   -   emerge -C eselect-python disaster (http://www.linux-archive.org/gentoo-development/314165-emerge-c-eselect-python-disaster.html)

Benny Pedersen 01-24-2010 04:12 AM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
should not be marked as system ?

it removes python-wrapper and this remove python link from
/usr/bin/python linked to /usr/bin/python-wrapper so all portage does
not work after this, but i solved it with a quickpkg from another host


my dump question why is it not listed as a system pkg when it really
seems so important ?


--
xpoint

Ulrich Mueller 01-24-2010 08:03 AM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
>>>>> On Sun, 24 Jan 2010, Benny Pedersen wrote:

> it removes python-wrapper and this remove python link from
> /usr/bin/python linked to /usr/bin/python-wrapper so all portage
> does not work after this,

It's a run-time dependency of python, so what did you expect?

> my dump question why is it not listed as a system pkg when it really
> seems so important ?

Python itself is not in the system set, so why should the eselect
module be?

Ulrich

Petteri Räty 01-24-2010 08:40 AM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
On 01/24/2010 07:12 AM, Benny Pedersen wrote:
>
> should not be marked as system ?
>
> it removes python-wrapper and this remove python link from
> /usr/bin/python linked to /usr/bin/python-wrapper so all portage does
> not work after this, but i solved it with a quickpkg from another host
>
> my dump question why is it not listed as a system pkg when it really
> seems so important ?
>

Removing packages with emerge -C is always potentially dangerous. The
recommended tool these days is emerge --depclean. emerge -C really only
comes to use with blockers and then maintainers should design the
upgrade paths so that you don't need to remove anything that breaks things.

Regards,
Petteri

Petteri Räty 01-24-2010 10:07 AM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
On 01/24/2010 07:12 AM, Benny Pedersen wrote:
>
> should not be marked as system ?
>
> it removes python-wrapper and this remove python link from
> /usr/bin/python linked to /usr/bin/python-wrapper so all portage does
> not work after this, but i solved it with a quickpkg from another host
>
> my dump question why is it not listed as a system pkg when it really
> seems so important ?
>

The meaning of the system set is to have only the packages directly
required to have a minimal functioning system. Having python by itself
is not a requirement for that but having package management is. As a
consequence python gets pulled in by portage. We could have a separate
list for packages for which the PM should tell the user that he's an
idiot of course but the best thing is to educate users that emerge -C is
dangerous.

Regards,
Petteri

"Arttu V." 01-24-2010 10:29 AM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
On 1/24/10, Benny Pedersen <me@junc.org> wrote:
>
> should not be marked as system ?
>
> it removes python-wrapper and this remove python link from
> /usr/bin/python linked to /usr/bin/python-wrapper so all portage does
> not work after this, but i solved it with a quickpkg from another host
>
> my dump question why is it not listed as a system pkg when it really
> seems so important ?

Nearly identical question was mulled over in a discussion last spring
over at gentoo-user list. Scan for "ARGH I uninstalled python" in the
archives if you are interested.

IIRC there was a suggestion to make the system set dynamically grow to
contain all of the required dependencies of the packages explicitly
listed in the system set, but I'm not sure if it went anywhere.

Anyways, the current contents of @system cause all kinds of surprises,
for example to FEATURES="buildsyspkg" users who rely on the feature
without realizing how small (and even "incomplete") @system actually
is.

--
Arttu V.

Ben de Groot 01-24-2010 12:02 PM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
2010/1/24 Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org>:
> The meaning of the system set is to have only the packages directly
> required to have a minimal functioning system. Having python by itself
> is not a requirement for that but having package management is.

You can't have functioning package management without the hard
dependencies it requires. So both portage and python should be in the
system set.

Cheers,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
__________________________________________________ ____

Dale 01-24-2010 12:03 PM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
Arttu V. wrote:

On 1/24/10, Benny Pedersen <me@junc.org> wrote:


should not be marked as system ?

it removes python-wrapper and this remove python link from
/usr/bin/python linked to /usr/bin/python-wrapper so all portage does
not work after this, but i solved it with a quickpkg from another host

my dump question why is it not listed as a system pkg when it really
seems so important ?



Nearly identical question was mulled over in a discussion last spring
over at gentoo-user list. Scan for "ARGH I uninstalled python" in the
archives if you are interested.

IIRC there was a suggestion to make the system set dynamically grow to
contain all of the required dependencies of the packages explicitly
listed in the system set, but I'm not sure if it went anywhere.

Anyways, the current contents of @system cause all kinds of surprises,
for example to FEATURES="buildsyspkg" users who rely on the feature
without realizing how small (and even "incomplete") @system actually
is.




I just picked a random reply here. My $0.02 worth. If I try to remove
portage itself, I get this:


root@smoker / # emerge -Ca portage

>>> These are the packages that would be unmerged:
* Not unmerging package sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc61 since there is no valid
* reason for portage to unmerge itself.

>>> No packages selected for removal by unmerge
root@smoker / #

It appears you can't even remove portage at all. Now call me silly,
couldn't it be said that removing something that would prevent the
package manager from working constitute a little warning? After all,
most likely the person is not thinking clearly that day and most likely
doesn't REALLY want to do this.


Is there not a way to at the very least post a warning and then ask a
'are you sure' question like it does with the -a option?


It's just that as a newbie ages ago, I did this too. I didn't realize
that it was a nasty boo boo until afterwards.


< dale crawls back under his rock >

Dale

:-) :-)

Petteri Räty 01-24-2010 03:53 PM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
On 01/24/2010 03:02 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> 2010/1/24 Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org>:
>> The meaning of the system set is to have only the packages directly
>> required to have a minimal functioning system. Having python by itself
>> is not a requirement for that but having package management is.
>
> You can't have functioning package management without the hard
> dependencies it requires. So both portage and python should be in the
> system set.
>
> Cheers,

Why should we keep redundant information in the list?

Regards,
Petteri

Ben de Groot 01-24-2010 05:20 PM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
2010/1/24 Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org>:
> On 01/24/2010 03:02 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>> You can't have functioning package management without the hard
>> dependencies it requires. So both portage and python should be in the
>> system set.
>
> Why should we keep redundant information in the list?

How is that redundant?

Cheers,
--
Ben de Groot
Gentoo Linux developer (qt, media, lxde, desktop-misc)
__________________________________________________ ____

Petteri Räty 01-24-2010 07:19 PM

emerge -C eselect-python disaster
 
On 01/24/2010 08:20 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
> 2010/1/24 Petteri Räty <betelgeuse@gentoo.org>:
>> On 01/24/2010 03:02 PM, Ben de Groot wrote:
>>> You can't have functioning package management without the hard
>>> dependencies it requires. So both portage and python should be in the
>>> system set.
>>
>> Why should we keep redundant information in the list?
>
> How is that redundant?
>
> Cheers,

The problem the original poster wanted to solve is having a warning when
trying to unmerge something in "system". The best way here is to file a
Portage enhancement request and not pollute the profile system set
marking. The purpose of the packages file is to describe what needs to
be installed for a minimal system to work so it doesn't make sense to
pollute it with implementation details.

Regards,
Petteri


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