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Markos Chandras 01-11-2010 08:05 PM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
# Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> (11 Jan 2010)
# Fails with -Wl,--as-needed
# bug #182782. Removal in 30 days
net-nntp/inn

--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org

Mike Frysinger 01-11-2010 09:31 PM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
On Monday 11 January 2010 16:05:16 Markos Chandras wrote:
> # Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> (11 Jan 2010)
> # Fails with -Wl,--as-needed
> # bug #182782. Removal in 30 days
> net-nntp/inn

is as-needed support really a valid reason for punting a package ? i dont
think it is.
-mike

Arnaud Launay 01-11-2010 10:30 PM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
Hello,

Le Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:05:16PM +0200, Markos Chandras a écrit:
> # Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> (11 Jan 2010)
> # Fails with -Wl,--as-needed
> # bug #182782. Removal in 30 days
> net-nntp/inn

As a newsmaster, I'm a bit concerned by this.
By viewing bug #182782 , it seems to me that only inn <=2.4.* is
concerned by this bug, and that >=2.5 does not have it.

But, if I understand this announce correctly, the complete inn
port will be dropped to oblivion.

Wouldn't it be better to stabilize inn 2.5 (there's even a 2.5.1
release out there, with a quite reactive support/dev team, to
which this "bug" could be pushed and corrected), than to just
drop inn entirely ?

Or maybe I'm just plain wrong, in which case I will happily stand
corrected.

Arnaud.

Jeroen Roovers 01-12-2010 12:00 AM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:31:08 -0500
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:

> On Monday 11 January 2010 16:05:16 Markos Chandras wrote:
> > # Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> (11 Jan 2010)
> > # Fails with -Wl,--as-needed
> > # bug #182782. Removal in 30 days
> > net-nntp/inn
>
> is as-needed support really a valid reason for punting a package ? i
> dont think it is.

Bad research - he simply lists the wrong reason. Lack of maintainer
attention would have been a better description.

The bug in question should have been closed and kept closed long ago,
so the 2.5 years mentioned on the bug is wrong as well...

I'm looking into this now.


jer

Jeroen Roovers 01-12-2010 12:02 AM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:30:24 +0100
Arnaud Launay <asl@launay.org> wrote:

> But, if I understand this announce correctly, the complete inn
> port will be dropped to oblivion.

Yes, and that shouldn't (and won't) happen.

> Wouldn't it be better to stabilize inn 2.5 (there's even a 2.5.1
> release out there, with a quite reactive support/dev team, to
> which this "bug" could be pushed and corrected), than to just
> drop inn entirely ?

I'm working on getting 2.5.1 in the tree (and fixing a USE=python and
some other issues while I'm at it).


jer

Duncan 01-12-2010 12:10 AM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
Arnaud Launay posted on Tue, 12 Jan 2010 00:30:24 +0100 as excerpted:

> Hello,
>
> Le Mon, Jan 11, 2010 at 11:05:16PM +0200, Markos Chandras a écrit:
>> # Markos Chandras <hwoarang@gentoo.org> (11 Jan 2010) # Fails with
>> -Wl,--as-needed
>> # bug #182782. Removal in 30 days
>> net-nntp/inn
>
> As a newsmaster, I'm a bit concerned by this. By viewing bug #182782 ,
> it seems to me that only inn <=2.4.* is concerned by this bug, and that
> >=2.5 does not have it.
>
> But, if I understand this announce correctly, the complete inn port will
> be dropped to oblivion.
>
> Wouldn't it be better to stabilize inn 2.5 (there's even a 2.5.1 release
> out there, with a quite reactive support/dev team, to which this "bug"
> could be pushed and corrected), than to just drop inn entirely ?
>
> Or maybe I'm just plain wrong, in which case I will happily stand
> corrected.

While I'm an --as-needed user myself, add my post here too.

A work-around is a work-around and shouldn't close the bug, agree with
flame-eyes there, but it seems a bit much to yank something as standard
as INN from the tree over this, especially when there's no indication it
applies to the ~arch version 2.5, only 2.4.x, in either bug (182782,
248145, refer to the log for the latter).

Not only is there no indication that 2.5 is affected, but if it is,
where's the mention of the upstream bug number?

Replacements? There's leafnode, and checking, I see openntpd4 and
twisted news. Still, inn is rather like sendmail for news. Do we
/really/ want to kill it?

IMO, the backing on this one seems thin and the timing premature.
Perhaps it does need to go, but if so, there's certainly a stronger case
to be made for it than those couple bugs and the last-rites masking
comment.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

Richard Freeman 01-12-2010 12:36 AM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
On 01/11/2010 06:30 PM, Arnaud Launay wrote:


As a newsmaster, I'm a bit concerned by this.


Yeah, inn seems like a really high-profile package to mask for removal.
It would be conspicuous in its absence.


Would it make sense to post on -dev BEFORE masking packages like this?
I'm sure there are lots of people who would chip in before something
like this dies.


Right now lots of users are going to get errors due to a masked package
until somebody takes the initiative to fix it. I suspect that nobody
wants to poke their head up and risk getting it shot off by doing
something like that...


Perhaps Gentoo needs a little more of Wikipedia's "Be Bold" attitude and
a little less of their "delete first and ask questions later" attitude.


Note - I'm not suggesting the problem shouldn't be fixed - I'm just
suggesting that in this case the solution is worse than the original
problem.


Rich

Jeroen Roovers 01-12-2010 01:22 AM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:02:14 +0100
Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> wrote:

> I'm working on getting 2.5.1 in the tree (and fixing a USE=python and
> some other issues while I'm at it).

net-nntp/inn-2.5.1 is in the tree and fixes many (QA) issues. Please
track bug #300650 [1] if you want to stay informed of its
stabilisation, which should be performed in about a month unless more
non-trivial issues get uncovered. I applied all of the QA changes to
2.5.0 for convenience. I also removed the package.mask, and closed
both(!) open bug reports as FIXED (in 2.5.*).


jer


[1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=300650

Jeremy Olexa 01-12-2010 02:43 AM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 20:36:37 -0500, Richard Freeman <rich0@gentoo.org>
wrote:
> On 01/11/2010 06:30 PM, Arnaud Launay wrote:
>>
>> As a newsmaster, I'm a bit concerned by this.
>
> Yeah, inn seems like a really high-profile package to mask for removal.
> It would be conspicuous in its absence.
>
> Would it make sense to post on -dev BEFORE masking packages like this?
> I'm sure there are lots of people who would chip in before something
> like this dies.

(A general reply, not targeted towards you, Rich)

Speaking on behalf of the treecleaners:
The fact is, some of us have never heard of "inn" and until Gentoo has
some sort of "popularity tracking" software/tool, the treecleaners will
continue to mask unmaintained software. We can't possible know about every
package in the tree and if it looks like it is unmaintained (open bugs w/o
action) then we will mask it for removal unless someone fixes it and
maintains it.

Let's all move on here and be happy that someone is now maintaining such a
popular package. Thanks jer/rej - I'll add you to metadata so it doesn't
become unmaintained again :) Wasn't there a GSoC project on popularity of
packages? Let's get it implemented already! ;)

-Jeremy

>
> Right now lots of users are going to get errors due to a masked package
> until somebody takes the initiative to fix it. I suspect that nobody
> wants to poke their head up and risk getting it shot off by doing
> something like that...
>
> Perhaps Gentoo needs a little more of Wikipedia's "Be Bold" attitude and

> a little less of their "delete first and ask questions later" attitude.
>
> Note - I'm not suggesting the problem shouldn't be fixed - I'm just
> suggesting that in this case the solution is worse than the original
> problem.
>
> Rich

Markos Chandras 01-12-2010 03:32 PM

Last rites: net-nntp/inn
 
On Tuesday 12 January 2010 04:22:05 Jeroen Roovers wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Jan 2010 02:02:14 +0100
>
> Jeroen Roovers <jer@gentoo.org> wrote:
> > I'm working on getting 2.5.1 in the tree (and fixing a USE=python and
> > some other issues while I'm at it).
>
> net-nntp/inn-2.5.1 is in the tree and fixes many (QA) issues. Please
> track bug #300650 [1] if you want to stay informed of its
> stabilisation, which should be performed in about a month unless more
> non-trivial issues get uncovered. I applied all of the QA changes to
> 2.5.0 for convenience. I also removed the package.mask, and closed
> both(!) open bug reports as FIXED (in 2.5.*).
>
>
> jer
>
>
> [1] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=300650
>
Thanks for saving this package. As Jeremy said, there is absolutely no way to
measure the popularity of a package. So if it has no maintainer, and open bugs
we have to mask it and announce it here. It is up to you whether you want to
save it or not

Anyway, sorry for the inconvenience
--
Markos Chandras (hwoarang)
Gentoo Linux Developer
Web: http://hwoarang.silverarrow.org


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