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Old 03-08-2009, 06:49 AM
Tiziano Müller
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

Hi everyone

With eapis 1 and 2 we introduced nice features but also a couple of new
problems. One of them are the use dependencies when the package you
depend on doesn't have the use flag anymore (see [1] for an example).

So I think it's time for a short eapi bump with some distinct
improvements:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ


Please discuss.

Cheers,
Tiziano


[1]:
Git depends on subversion[dso], but subversion-1.5.5 doesn't have
USE=dso anymore, so my package manager (paludis in that case) tried to
downgrade to a version of subversion where the USE flag exists.
The PMS says this about the issue: "It is an error for a use dependency
to be applied to an ebuild which does not have the flag in question in
IUSE [...]"
 
Old 03-08-2009, 07:08 AM
Josh Saddler
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

Tiziano Müller wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> With eapis 1 and 2 we introduced nice features but also a couple of new
> problems. One of them are the use dependencies when the package you
> depend on doesn't have the use flag anymore (see [1] for an example).
>
> So I think it's time for a short eapi bump with some distinct
> improvements:
>
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ

Is there a reason why we should ram through a new EAPI for something
that *looks* like another "Paludis supports this so let's make it a
Portage standard" proposal? Is there some kind of time deadline here
that you all want?

Also, why the bannination of || ( foo? (.).) -- how is it error prone,
exactly.
 
Old 03-08-2009, 07:29 AM
Christian Faulhammer
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

Hi,

Josh Saddler <nightmorph@gentoo.org>:

> Tiziano Müller wrote:
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > With eapis 1 and 2 we introduced nice features but also a couple of
> > new problems. One of them are the use dependencies when the package
> > you depend on doesn't have the use flag anymore (see [1] for an
> > example).
> >
> > So I think it's time for a short eapi bump with some distinct
> > improvements:
> >
> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ
>
> Is there a reason why we should ram through a new EAPI for something
> that *looks* like another "Paludis supports this so let's make it a
> Portage standard" proposal? Is there some kind of time deadline here
> that you all want?

built_with_use supports exactly that with the --missing switch and
yesterday I noticed some ebuilds that could not be transferred to
EAPI 2 because of that.

> Also, why the bannination of || ( foo? (.).) -- how is it error prone,
> exactly.

I would like to hear about that, too.

V-Li

--
Christian Faulhammer, Gentoo Lisp project
<URL:http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/lisp/>, #gentoo-lisp on FreeNode

<URL:http://www.faulhammer.org/>
 
Old 03-08-2009, 07:38 AM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

On Sun, 08 Mar 2009 00:08:37 -0800
Josh Saddler <nightmorph@gentoo.org> wrote:
> Is there a reason why we should ram through a new EAPI for something
> that *looks* like another "Paludis supports this so let's make it a
> Portage standard" proposal? Is there some kind of time deadline here
> that you all want?

If we were sticking through "things Paludis has that're useful", the
list would be an awful lot longer... And not everything on that list is
even in Paludis... But hey, some things never go out of fashion.

A few things on the list are required pretty soon. Bug 249166 and
various existing screwups in the tree suggest that [use(+)] (or
whatever syntax is decided upon) is going to crop up fairly frequently.
And certain people are reluctant to nuke their prepalldocs calls
despite Council decisions... I think the rest are just there because
they're useful and easy.

> Also, why the bannination of || ( foo? (.).) -- how is it error prone,
> exactly.

Last time I checked, every single use of foo? as a direct child of ||
in the tree was wrong, as were the Portage docs. Let's say you have the
following:

DEPEND="|| (
foo? ( cat/foo )
bar? ( cat/bar )
cat/baz
)"

Then this is wrong:

if use foo ; then
myconf="--enable-foo"
elif use bar ; then
myconf="--enable-bar"
else
myconf="--enable-baz
fi

Here's why:

Say the user already has baz installed, and has USE="foo". The package
manager will see that baz is already installed, and as per the rules
for || will not look at the foo or bar deps. So if the user doesn't
have foo installed, the --enable-foo will be wrong.

So the 'correct' code would have to be something like this:

if use foo && has_version cat/foo ; then
myconf="--enable-foo"
elif use bar && has_version cat/bar ; then
myconf="--enable-bar"
else
myconf="--enable-baz
fi

Except this is *still* a mess, because a user who has USE="foo bar" is
going to end up with a differently configured package depending upon
what he happens to have installed up-front, which is something that's
not supposed to happen.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Old 03-08-2009, 08:32 AM
Ulrich Mueller
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

>>>>> On Sun, 8 Mar 2009, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

> Last time I checked, every single use of foo? as a direct child of ||
> in the tree was wrong, as were the Portage docs. Let's say you have the
> following:

> DEPEND="|| (
> foo? ( cat/foo )
> bar? ( cat/bar )
> cat/baz
> )"

> Then this is wrong:

> if use foo ; then
> myconf="--enable-foo"
> elif use bar ; then
> myconf="--enable-bar"
> else
> myconf="--enable-baz
> fi

I would suspect that in most of such cases the code expresses what is
intended, but the dependency should be changed:

foo? ( cat/foo )
!foo? (
bar? ( cat/bar )
!bar? ( cat/baz )
)

Ulrich
 
Old 03-08-2009, 08:43 AM
Tiziano Müller
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

Am Sonntag, den 08.03.2009, 00:08 -0800 schrieb Josh Saddler:
> Tiziano Müller wrote:
> > Hi everyone
> >
> > With eapis 1 and 2 we introduced nice features but also a couple of new
> > problems. One of them are the use dependencies when the package you
> > depend on doesn't have the use flag anymore (see [1] for an example).
> >
> > So I think it's time for a short eapi bump with some distinct
> > improvements:
> >
> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ
>
> Is there a reason why we should ram through a new EAPI for something
> that *looks* like another "Paludis supports this so let's make it a
> Portage standard" proposal?
Ok, first it's not about paludis,portage,pkgcore,whatever but about the
ebuild-format. Paludis also fails if you have DEPEND="cat/foo[moo]" in
bar-0.1.ebuild but cat/foo doesn't have a "moo" USE flag.

So, please let's focus on the problems we have and try to find a
solution. Please fill in the blanks in the table if you know how portage
has it implemented.

And I used the word "fast" because people start to use use-dependencies
on a larger scale leading to more problems like the one I described in
the example. In fact, you could already say that for git the dep-tree is
broken because newer subversion doesn't carry the "dso" USE flag
anymore.

> Is there some kind of time deadline here
> that you all want?
Well, 2 weeks discussion and 1 month implementation would be cool.
 
Old 03-08-2009, 09:20 AM
Ulrich Mueller
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

>>>>> On Sun, 08 Mar 2009, Tiziano Müller wrote:

>> > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ

I get "Not Found - Error 404" for this URL.

Ulrich
 
Old 03-08-2009, 10:05 AM
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

2009-03-08 10:43:44 Tiziano Müller napisał(a):
> Am Sonntag, den 08.03.2009, 00:08 -0800 schrieb Josh Saddler:
> > Tiziano Müller wrote:
> > > Hi everyone
> > >
> > > With eapis 1 and 2 we introduced nice features but also a couple of new
> > > problems. One of them are the use dependencies when the package you
> > > depend on doesn't have the use flag anymore (see [1] for an example).
> > >
> > > So I think it's time for a short eapi bump with some distinct
> > > improvements:
> > >
> > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ
> >
> > Is there a reason why we should ram through a new EAPI for something
> > that *looks* like another "Paludis supports this so let's make it a
> > Portage standard" proposal?
> Ok, first it's not about paludis,portage,pkgcore,whatever but about the
> ebuild-format. Paludis also fails if you have DEPEND="cat/foo[moo]" in
> bar-0.1.ebuild but cat/foo doesn't have a "moo" USE flag.
>
> So, please let's focus on the problems we have and try to find a
> solution. Please fill in the blanks in the table if you know how portage
> has it implemented.
>
> And I used the word "fast" because people start to use use-dependencies
> on a larger scale leading to more problems like the one I described in
> the example. In fact, you could already say that for git the dep-tree is
> broken because newer subversion doesn't carry the "dso" USE flag
> anymore.

http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/dev-util/subversion/subversion-1.5.5.ebuild?view=markup
contains:
IUSE="apache2 berkdb debug doc +dso emacs extras java nls perl python ruby sasl vim-syntax +webdav-neon webdav-serf"
^^^

(Subversion 1.6.* also has "dso" USE flag.)

--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Old 03-08-2009, 10:23 AM
Tiziano Müller
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

Am Sonntag, den 08.03.2009, 12:05 +0100 schrieb Arfrever Frehtes
Taifersar Arahesis:
> 2009-03-08 10:43:44 Tiziano Müller napisał(a):
> > Am Sonntag, den 08.03.2009, 00:08 -0800 schrieb Josh Saddler:
> > > Tiziano Müller wrote:
> > > > Hi everyone
> > > >
> > > > With eapis 1 and 2 we introduced nice features but also a couple of new
> > > > problems. One of them are the use dependencies when the package you
> > > > depend on doesn't have the use flag anymore (see [1] for an example).
> > > >
> > > > So I think it's time for a short eapi bump with some distinct
> > > > improvements:
> > > >
> > > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ
> > >
> > > Is there a reason why we should ram through a new EAPI for something
> > > that *looks* like another "Paludis supports this so let's make it a
> > > Portage standard" proposal?
> > Ok, first it's not about paludis,portage,pkgcore,whatever but about the
> > ebuild-format. Paludis also fails if you have DEPEND="cat/foo[moo]" in
> > bar-0.1.ebuild but cat/foo doesn't have a "moo" USE flag.
> >
> > So, please let's focus on the problems we have and try to find a
> > solution. Please fill in the blanks in the table if you know how portage
> > has it implemented.
> >
> > And I used the word "fast" because people start to use use-dependencies
> > on a larger scale leading to more problems like the one I described in
> > the example. In fact, you could already say that for git the dep-tree is
> > broken because newer subversion doesn't carry the "dso" USE flag
> > anymore.
>
> http://sources.gentoo.org/viewcvs.py/gentoo-x86/dev-util/subversion/subversion-1.5.5.ebuild?view=markup
> contains:
> IUSE="apache2 berkdb debug doc +dso emacs extras java nls perl python ruby sasl vim-syntax +webdav-neon webdav-serf"
> ^^^
True, but subversion-1.4* doesn't. Anyway, it was meant as an example...
 
Old 03-08-2009, 03:22 PM
Robert Buchholz
 
Default Ideas for a (fast) EAPI=3

On Sunday 08 March 2009, Tiziano Müller wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> With eapis 1 and 2 we introduced nice features but also a couple of
> new problems. One of them are the use dependencies when the package
> you depend on doesn't have the use flag anymore (see [1] for an
> example).
>
> So I think it's time for a short eapi bump with some distinct
> improvements:
>
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pPAJXP6shYH78lCXeqRqCUQ

I'm not sure if you would like to discuss items to be added to the
spreadsheet on this list first, but I accidently added
default_src_install (bug 33544) to the list. I did not know it would
store and share changes immediately.
However, the proposed implementation on the bug does not follow the
ideas of adding arguments to the default_src_* implementations
(230725).

Still, I think adding the default src_install function to EAPI=3 would
be both trivial and an improvement for many simple ebuilds.

Robert
 

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