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Old 07-01-2008, 02:30 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically
the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
(#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !

If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
Gentoo dev list to see.

Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
before the meeting. Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
--
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 07-01-2008, 12:21 PM
Ferris McCormick
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

On Tue, 2008-07-01 at 05:30 +0000, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically
> the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
> (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !
>
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.
>

This is delicate. I have asked for two items on the agenda for the next
meeting, but so far they are on mail aliases only. I can post them
here, and I want them public. Please advise.

> Keep in mind that every GLEP *re*submission to the council for review
> must first be sent to the gentoo-dev mailing list 7 days (minimum)
> before being submitted as an agenda item which itself occurs 7 days
> before the meeting. Simply put, the gentoo-dev mailing list must be
> notified at least 14 days before the meeting itself.
>
> For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Regards,
Ferris
--
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)
 
Old 07-03-2008, 06:22 PM
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

2008-07-01 07:30:01 Mike Frysinger napisał(a):
> This is your monthly friendly reminder ! Same bat time (typically
> the 2nd Thursday at 2000 UTC / 1600 EST), same bat channel
> (#gentoo-council @ irc.freenode.net) !
>
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

Please vote on my proposition of default LDFLAGS if they aren't introduced
until Council meeting.

--
Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis
 
Old 07-09-2008, 08:40 AM
Donnie Berkholz
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> Gentoo dev list to see.

Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's
unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an
agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

--
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com
People who need to take action
==============================
Non-council members who need to do something.

araujo [Document of being an active developer]
vapier [Slacker arches]
antarus [as-needed by default]
cardoe [GLEP 56]
fmccor [Extent of Code of Conduct enforcement]


Updates to last month's topics
==============================

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080612-summary.txt


Document of being an active developer
-------------------------------------
Requested attendees: araujo

Preparation: araujo needs to post progress, an updated certificate and
any new requests to the gentoo-council or gentoo-project list 4+ hours
before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion
expected.


Slacker arches
--------------
Preparation: vapier needs to send the post 4+ hours before the meeting.
(Mike, is this ever going to happen?)

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion
expected.


Can the council help fewer bugs get ignored by arm/sh/s390 teams?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Preparation: Someone on an undermanned arch team needs to describe their
workflow on-list 4+ hours before the meeting. Any volunteers?

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion
expected.


New topics
==========

Appeals of spb, rbrown, & philantrop
------------------------------------
Preparation: Reach decisions.

Goal: Announce decisions no later than July 10 via personal emails and
on-list to avoid disrupting the meeting.


Meeting frequency & time
------------------------
Do we want biweekly meetings that last one hour each?

Here are the time slots we found using whenisgood.net:
2000-2100 UTC Thursday
1600-1800 UTC Sunday (conflicts: flameeyes, jokey)

Preparation: Respond to the ongoing thread regarding your opinion on
biweekly meetings.

Goal: Vote on time & frequency on the council alias no later than July
10.


as-needed by default
--------------------
antarus requested that we vote on whether to add it to the default
LDFLAGS.

Preparation: Antarus will post a deployment plan to -dev for discussion.
We can vote on it on -council as soon as it solidifies. (Alec, please do
this by July 17.)

Goal: Status check with antarus.


GLEP 54
-------
Preparation: Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "A few
questions to our nominees" 4+ hours before the meeting.

Last month:
dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml
lu_zero: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_05614741b3942bfdfb21fd8ebb7955e0.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list
no later than July 17.


GLEP 55
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "GLEP 55" 4+ hours
before the meeting.

Last month:
dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list
once we're ready.


GLEP 56
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "[GLEP56] USE flag
descriptions in metadata" 4+ hours before the meeting. (Cardoe: Did the
requested updates ever get made?)

Last month:
dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_54ee20d2b1d8122370afdd4b3d7aafc9.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list
no later than July 17, if requested changes are made.


User Relations authority
------------------------
Ferris asks: Does userrel have the authority to enforce the Code of
Conduct on users in the same way devrel does for developers?

Preparation: Donnie will start a thread on the -council list. Post your
opinion there. If everyone's posted in advance of the meeting, status
check at meeting to see who's ready to vote.

Goal: Reach a decision on-list no later than July 17.


Extent of Code of Conduct enforcement
-------------------------------------
Ferris asks: Can people be entirely banned from Gentoo (mailing lists,
IRC channels, etc.)? Who can do it, how's it work, under whose
authority? Are there any prerequisites? He cites the corner case of
refusal to accept a security patch.

Ferris, I couldn't make enough sense out of your long email to council@
to summarize any more of it reasonably, sorry. Please send a response to
this that succinctly clarifies any part of your agenda proposals that I
got wrong.

Preparation: Clarification from Ferris. After that, Donnie will start a
thread on the -council list. Post your opinion there.

Goal: Reach a decision on-list no later than July 17.
 
Old 07-09-2008, 11:07 AM
"Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis"
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

2008-07-09 10:40 Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> napisał(a):
> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul , Mike Frysinger wrote:
>> If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
>> vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
>> Gentoo dev list to see.
>
> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's
> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an
> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

You forgot about voting on adding some flags to default LDFLAGS.
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57163/focus=57193
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57092/focus=57169
 
Old 07-09-2008, 01:09 PM
Ferris McCormick
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 01:40 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> > vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> > Gentoo dev list to see.
>
> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's
> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an
> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

I'll try to clarify my second agenda item on an absolute ban. Also I
might edit my private request to make it pure vanilla and send it out,
too, so that people may cross check my summary if they wish. If people
want that, please respond saying so.

1. Your summary in the agenda is a fair reading of my request.
However, I don't think it's realistic to expect a decision within a week
because I think instituting a policy and procedure allowing a complete
ban forever from Gentoo requires at the least a change to the Code of
Conduct and a review cycle for that.

2. I can't spell out exactly what people are thinking of when
discussing absolute bans, because I get the sense that different people
have different ideas about just what we would mean by that. So I think
the first step is for someone who advocates such a procedure needs to
spell out exactly what it would be and why we would do it and under
whose authority, etc. As probably everyone knows, I am absolutely
opposed to any such thing, so I am not the person to do this.

3. So, I don't think we can reach a decision on anything until we are
all clear on what we are deciding on.

4. Here's what I think is meant by a complete ban. *These are only my
own inferences from reading between the lines and trying to put
different comments together in some coherent fashion.*
Under some rather unclear conditions, some combination of
devrel/userrel/trustees/infra could decide to impose a complete,
permanent ban on a member (user or, I suppose developer) of our
community. This would have the following effects:
a. The person could post to no gentoo mailing list;
b. The person could not post to gentoo bugzilla;
c. The person could not participate in #gentoo- IRC
channels (although this runs into conflict with individual
channel policy);
d. The person could not contribute to gentoo (hence my corner
case of a security fix) except perhaps through a proxy;
e. (Perhaps any upstream projects in which the person banned
would be notified of the ban??? --- I'm not sure).
Right now, I don't know anymore if what I just described is what is
being proposed or not.

5. I am told that nothing is forever, and that if whatever problems
triggered such a ban were corrected, the ban might be lifted. I note,
however, that since the banned person could not participate in Gentoo
things, as a practical matter we'd never know if anything was corrected
or not. (Except through 3rd parties.)

6. Presumably, all of this would be done in secret and whoever is being
hit by such a ban would have no opportunity to respond before the ban's
imposition. I suppose there would be a right to appeal to council,
assuming council took no part in deciding on the ban.

7. [Argument] I view this as a pretty major change in how Gentoo
operates. So someone needs to clarify my inferences in paragraph 4, and
then we should think very carefully about it before allowing for any
such practice.

8. [Argument] I note that we are likely to institute some form of
possible moderation for the gentoo-dev mailing list (presumably based on
Code of Conduct violations), and if we do that, it effectively satisfies
the intent of any absolute ban, but is not nearly so traumatic to the
system. I note that this is a minority view among those who have
discussed this.

Donnie,
I don't know if that clarifies anything or just makes things more
confusing. It's the best I can come up with.

Regards,
Ferris
--
Ferris McCormick (P44646, MI) <fmccor@gentoo.org>
Developer, Gentoo Linux (Devrel, Sparc, Userrel, Trustees)
 
Old 07-09-2008, 04:31 PM
Donnie Berkholz
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

On 13:07 Wed 09 Jul , Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:
> You forgot about voting on adding some flags to default LDFLAGS.
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57163/focus=57193
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57092/focus=57169

There was no real debate about that (the only question was where), and
Cardoe said this morning that he was just going to commit it. If people
had any problems, they would've posted them to the thread.

--
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com
 
Old 07-09-2008, 04:52 PM
Doug Goldstein
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

Donnie Berkholz wrote:

On 13:07 Wed 09 Jul , Arfrever Frehtes Taifersar Arahesis wrote:


You forgot about voting on adding some flags to default LDFLAGS.
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57163/focus=57193
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/57092/focus=57169



There was no real debate about that (the only question was where), and
Cardoe said this morning that he was just going to commit it. If people
had any problems, they would've posted them to the thread.



Yep. I actually gave everyone a little bit longer to protest. It seemed
like everyone was in favor of this move but no one made the commit. It
now exists in profiles/default/linux/make.defaults. I created a tracker
for any issues that crop up. [1]


[1] http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=231310
--
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 07-10-2008, 04:38 AM
Ryan Hill
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:40:13 -0700
Donnie Berkholz <dberkholz@gentoo.org> wrote:

> Slacker arches
> --------------
> Preparation: vapier needs to send the post 4+ hours before the
> meeting. (Mike, is this ever going to happen?)

I believe he's out of the country until August.


--
gcc-porting, by design, by neglect
treecleaner, for a fact or just for effect
wxwidgets @ gentoo EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662
 
Old 07-10-2008, 06:05 AM
Donnie Berkholz
 
Default Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for July

On 01:40 Wed 09 Jul , Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 05:30 Tue 01 Jul , Mike Frysinger wrote:
> > If you have something you'd wish for us to chat about, maybe even
> > vote on, let us know ! Simply reply to this e-mail for the whole
> > Gentoo dev list to see.
>
> Here's the proposed agenda. Please respond if I forgot something, it's
> unclear, or you have another suggestion. As before, since we have an
> agenda in advance we won't be holding an open floor.

Here are the items that will actually come up during the meeting instead
of the overall list of ongoing things including list discussions.

Council members: Remember to post to the GLEP threads if you have
anything new to say.

--
Thanks,
Donnie

Donnie Berkholz
Developer, Gentoo Linux
Blog: http://dberkholz.wordpress.com
as-needed by default
--------------------
antarus requested that we vote on whether to add it to the default
LDFLAGS.

Preparation: Antarus will post a deployment plan to -dev for discussion.
We can vote on it on -council as soon as it solidifies. (Alec, please do
this by July 17.)

Goal: Status check with antarus.


GLEP 54
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "A few questions to
our nominees" 4+ hours before the meeting.

Last month:
dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml
lu_zero: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_05614741b3942bfdfb21fd8ebb7955e0.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list
no later than July 17.


GLEP 55
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "GLEP 55" 4+ hours
before the meeting.

Last month:
dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list
once we're ready.


GLEP 56
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "[GLEP56] USE flag
descriptions in metadata" 4+ hours before the meeting. (Cardoe: Did the
requested updates ever get made?)

Last month:
dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_54ee20d2b1d8122370afdd4b3d7aafc9.xml

Goal: Status check at meeting to see who's ready to vote. Vote on-list
no later than July 17, if requested changes are made.
 

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