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Old 07-01-2008, 02:05 AM
Mart Raudsepp
 
Default RFC: Installation of static libraries, USE=static-libs proposal

Hello again,


Over a year or two ago, it was communicated that it supposedly a policy
that USE=static should only control if a package installs static
libraries INSTEAD of shared libraries, and never to be used to control
if static libraries are installed in _addition_ to shared ones or not.

Packages were coerced to stop using USE=static for controlling that, and
most of them ended up unconditionally installing both static and shared
libraries. What's worse - they were told that if a package can provide
both shared libraries and static libraries at once, it just MUST (or
SHOULD) install them both instead of choosing to not ship the static
libraries.
End result that affects me: GNOME does not fit on LiveCD installation
media anymore.


So I'm proposing a USE=static-libs or similar to get out of this
problem, and a lifting of the supposed (I wasn't around as a dev that
long ago to know for sure) policy of having to install both instead of
choosing to never install static libraries.

I am quite sure that absolutely nothing whatsoever uses about 97% of the
static GNOME libraries we are now installing as an end result. How can I
be sure? Because everything worked just fine when static libraries
weren't installed in the past thanks to that not happening from
USE=static missing on most systems for years, and you'd have to be quite
crazy if you required static version of desktop libraries with well
established and followed ABI guarantees.

Those that aren't absolutely sure that there is no use case for static
libraries, could then use a USE=static-libs or similar to not
unnecessarily install static libraries that are not going to ever be
used. And LiveCD media could avoid all these static libraries, that it
currently has to ship just because the packages by default install that
cruft for no real technical reason (and it has to follow that due to
GRPs).
I would use USE=static-libs on packages like gtkmm, that have good
reasons to provide a static version - it allows Gentoo users that would
like to do commercial or universal C++ based development against Gentoo
system packages, as it avoids feared libstdc++ ABI breaks (there's even
a request for it in bugzilla).



There are packages in the tree that are required to install static
libraries, or something else in the system breaks. So INSTALL_MASK=*.a
is not a solution in my eyes.


Useful comments, thoughts, agreements?



I have had some additional ideas for handling static libraries better at
a package manager level, but those still need to be fleshed out and put
into writing.
Things like possibility to rebuild all packages that link to a static
library that was now upgraded, so the higher level package could use a
relinking to benefit from the bug fixes from the new library; optional
ability to install only the type of library currently needed - shared or
static, etc. Much of it goes to blue-sky ideas though with minimal
benefit for normal desktop/server systems and potentially high
maintenance effort, so I haven't put much effort into putting it into
writing. But maybe someone interested wants to chat on IRC on the topic.


--
Mart Raudsepp
Gentoo Developer
Mail: leio@gentoo.org
Weblog: http://planet.gentoo.org/developers/leio
 
Old 07-01-2008, 08:26 AM
Duncan
 
Default RFC: Installation of static libraries, USE=static-libs proposal

Mart Raudsepp <leio@gentoo.org> posted
1214877951.29224.54.camel@localhost, excerpted below, on Tue, 01 Jul 2008
05:05:51 +0300:

> Over a year or two ago, it was communicated that it supposedly a policy
> that USE=static should only control if a package installs static
> libraries INSTEAD of shared libraries, and never to be used to control
> if static libraries are installed in _addition_ to shared ones or not.

That's as I understand it too.

> Packages were coerced to stop using USE=static for controlling that, and
> most of them ended up unconditionally installing both static and shared
> libraries. What's worse - they were told that if a package can provide
> both shared libraries and static libraries at once, it just MUST (or
> SHOULD) install them both instead of choosing to not ship the static
> libraries.

OK, but see below.

> End result that affects me: GNOME does not fit on LiveCD installation
> media anymore.

Ouch!

> So I'm proposing a USE=static-libs or similar to get out of this
> problem, and a lifting of the supposed (I wasn't around as a dev that
> long ago to know for sure) policy of having to install both instead of
> choosing to never install static libraries.

I'm not sure this is warranted. See below.

> I am quite sure that absolutely nothing whatsoever uses about 97% of the
> static GNOME libraries we are now installing as an end result. [...]

Probably others than GNOME, too.

> There are packages in the tree that are required to install static
> libraries, or something else in the system breaks. So INSTALL_MASK=*.a
> is not a solution in my eyes.

This is the ticklish bit, but there's still a way around it for users
(such as those trying to fit GNOME on a liveCD) that need it. Useing
portage's bashrc, setup a conditional that excepts packages that need
static libs and set INSTALL_MASK='*.a' for everything else.

If you've not yet seen Ed Catmur's bashrc script setup, "I+'5 d4 60mb!"
I don't personally find many of its capabilities useful, but his auto-
patching setup has sure come in handy, and the entire thing is just
incredibly extensible on a nicely solid base. =8^) It should make
setting this up a breeze, and be handily expansible for 'most anything
else you might come up with as well. If it were me, I'd use that as a
base and go from there utilizing the idea I suggested above.

http://catmur.co.uk/gentoo/

Additionally, you don't mention whether you checked with them already or
not, but releng and subprojects may have some suggestions in this area.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman

--
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 07-01-2008, 09:33 AM
Rémi Cardona
 
Default RFC: Installation of static libraries, USE=static-libs proposal

Duncan a écrit :

Probably others than GNOME, too.


Thus Mart's effort to bring it to gentoo-dev

This is the ticklish bit, but there's still a way around it for users
(such as those trying to fit GNOME on a liveCD) that need it. Useing
portage's bashrc, setup a conditional that excepts packages that need
static libs and set INSTALL_MASK='*.a' for everything else.


No, it was pointed out that this cannot be done for LiveCD material, as
the packages would have a different content as a regular install. So
this is just out of the question.


For those wondering : "find /usr/lib64 -name "*.a" | xargs du -ch" will
tell you how much disk space is wasted by static libraries.


On my Gnome box, this is 246M. I know we won't be able to bring this to
0, but having it closer to 10~20M is a very worthy goal imho.


Cheers,

Rémi
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Old 07-01-2008, 12:57 PM
Enrico Weigelt
 
Default RFC: Installation of static libraries, USE=static-libs proposal

Hi,

<snip>

I'm really curious to know why a new (global) useflag couldn't
do the trick.

Let's say, we introduce a new useflag called "static-libs" and
enable it by defaulin all profiles. Then we can have a look at
the lib packages step by step and add support when it seems
useful there and test out carefully. There's no presure to this
for the whole distro at once.


cu
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce:
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Old 07-01-2008, 10:34 PM
Rémi Cardona
 
Default RFC: Installation of static libraries, USE=static-libs proposal

Enrico Weigelt wrote:

Hi,

<snip>

I'm really curious to know why a new (global) useflag couldn't
do the trick.


Read Mart's mail again, that's exactly what he's proposing.

And if no-one objects, I'll be working this inside the gnome2 eclass
(with review on this list before the final commit of course) to see how
things should be handled.


Cheers

Rémi
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