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Old 06-13-2008, 07:38 AM
Donnie Berkholz
 
Default Council meeting summary for 12 June 2008

Hi all,

Here is the summary from today's council meeting. The complete log will
show up at http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/ shortly.

Thanks,
Donnie
Quick summary
=============

Overall, the meeting went really well! Things that helped were
additional preparation notes in the agenda, a requirement to hold
discussions on-list instead of dragging out the meeting, and our
emphasized ability and willingness to hold votes on-list rather than
waiting another month. The meeting started at 20:00 and was over at
21:23, a vast improvement. We beat the 2-hour time limit we set.

Because of the emphasis of on-list discussions, a number of the topics
in the agenda & summary weren't actually mentioned during the meeting.
Instead consider the agenda & summary as a list of ongoing matters for
the council.


PMS: Versions can have >8 digits. If you want a maximum limit, discuss
it with relevant people and propose one.

Appeals: Will be handled using dberkholz's proposal:
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_d7c402fb577a3d5b1707e2bdf4b0a264.xml

LDFLAGS="--as-needed" by default: antarus will present a deployment plan
to -dev for how this would proceed.

GLEP 54: There was a new proposal 12 hours before the meeting. Wait for
discussion. Council members should post anything they have to add by the
end of the weekend.

GLEP 55: Discussion is clearly active. Council members should post
anything they have to add by the end of the weekend.

GLEP 56: Technically good, still some room for improvement. Council
members should post anything they have to add by the end of the weekend.

PMS status: This is a discussion that belongs on the mailing list.
Council members should post anything they have to add by the end of the
weekend.



Roll call
=========

(here, proxy [by whom] or slacker?)

amne here
betelgeuse here
dberkholz here
flameeyes proxy [cardoe]
lu_zero here
vapier slacker [emergency at work]
jokey here


Meeting
=======

Moderation
----------
Modes +qnm, with voice for people involved in discussions?

If it becomes necessary, we'll do it. Leave channel open till then.

Time limit
----------
2 hours?

Yes. We'll move any topics we didn't cover to the mailing lists.


Updates to last month's topics
==============================

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/meeting-logs/20080508-summary.txt


Document of being an active developer
-------------------------------------
Requested attendees: araujo

Last month: Numerous suggested improvements to info on the certificate.

Preparation: araujo needs to post progress, an updated certificate and
any new requests to the gentoo-council or gentoo-project list 2+ hours
before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion
expected.


Slacker arches
--------------
Preparation: vapier needs to send the post 2+ hours before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion
expected.


Can the council help fewer bugs get ignored by arm/sh/s390 teams?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Preparation: Someone on an undermanned arch team needs to describe their
workflow on-list 2+ hours before the meeting.

Goal: Suggest changes. This should happen on-list. No discussion
expected.


PMS: Are versions allowed to have more than 8 digits?
-----------------------------------------------------
http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_db2f5c09c2c0c8b042ca3d0dcec7cdaf.xml
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=188449

Preparation: Do the package maintainers with extremely long PVs need
them? The involved packages:
sys-process/fuser-bsd
sys-apps/net-tools
sys-apps/gradm
net-im/ntame
media-video/captury
media-libs/libcaptury
media-libs/capseo
sys-block/btrace
www-apache/mod_depends
net-wireless/rt2500
sys-fs/unionfs

Preparation: What's the impact of extending versionator.eclass?

Goal: With data in hand, make a decision.

Decision: We didn't have all of the testing requested. We still voted to
allow versions >8 digits. Adding a maximum restriction is a separate
question and was not addressed -- if anyone wants this restriction,
please discuss with fellow implementors and present your consensus to
the council.


How to handle appeals
---------------------
Preparation: Post to the gentoo-council mailing list 2+ hours before the
meeting with your opinion.

dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-council/msg_d7c402fb577a3d5b1707e2bdf4b0a264.xml

Goal: Vote on an approach that was previously posted to the list.

Decision: We approved dberkholz's proposal.


New topics
==========

as-needed by default
--------------------
antarus requested that we vote on whether to add it to the default
LDFLAGS.

Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "RFC: --as-needed to
default LDFLAGS" 2+ hours before the meeting.

dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_fdfd519c5372394cc7f3aacaefa387b9.xml

Goal: Vote.

Result: Whether this should be in default LDFLAGS or suggested in
make.conf.example wasn't clear. Betelgeuse suggested that we should know
the whole tree will build with this LDFLAGS setting (with open bugs for
packages that append -Wl,--no-as-needed) before we would consider
enabling it by default.

Antarus will post a deployment plan to -dev for discussion. We can vote
on it on -council as soon as it solidifies.


GLEP 54
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "A few questions to
our nominees" 2+ hours before the meeting.

dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml
lu_zero: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_05614741b3942bfdfb21fd8ebb7955e0.xml

Goal: Vote.

Result: lu_zero posted a second plan 12 hours ago. Since it hasn't been
around long enough to get much feedback, we decided to let them develop
and see if the ideas somehow merge.


GLEP 55
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "GLEP 55" 2+ hours
before the meeting. Let it attempt to come to a consensus before we
vote.

dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_c6e4ba8293f50c1e0444e67d59cf85ea.xml

Goal: Vote once the discussion's no longer clearly ongoing. We can hold
this vote on the -council mailing list instead of waiting for the next
meeting.


GLEP 56
-------
Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "[GLEP56] USE flag
descriptions in metadata" 2+ hours before the meeting. Let it attempt to
come to a consensus before we vote.

dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_54ee20d2b1d8122370afdd4b3d7aafc9.xml

Goal: Vote once the discussion's no longer clearly ongoing. We can hold
this vote on the -council mailing list instead of waiting for the next
meeting.

There is still room for improvement in this GLEP, not so much in its
technical aspects but in the way it promotes itself, the possible
generation of legacy files, and the tools to use it.


Status of PMS
-------------
ferringb said:
I'd like the council to please discuss the current status of PMS, if
the running of it satisfys the councils requirements of a *neutral*
standard, if the proposed spec actually meets said standards, and if
said spec is actually going to be approved sometimes this side of '09.

Preparation: Post your opinion to the -dev thread "One-Day Gentoo
Council Reminder for June" 2+ hours before the meeting.

dberkholz: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_9e9652212b3aefe09d93fc24c6ec4cb7.xml
vapier: http://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-dev/msg_37b3ca89a1d253516437facd22a3d806.xml

Result: This is a discussion that belongs on the mailing list. Council
members should post anything they have to add by the end of the weekend.
 

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