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Old 06-11-2008, 12:06 AM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

This is your one-day friendly reminder ! The monthly Gentoo Council
meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net. See the
channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).

If you're supposed to show up, please show up. If you're not supposed
to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
for you.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/
--
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 06-11-2008, 11:11 AM
Brian Harring
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 03:06:17AM +0000, Mike Frysinger wrote:
> This is your one-day friendly reminder ! The monthly Gentoo Council
> meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net. See the
> channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).
>
> If you're supposed to show up, please show up. If you're not supposed
> to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
> for you.
>
> For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
> http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/

Reiterating the early request, I'd like the council to please discuss
the current status of PMS, if the running of it satisfys the councils
requirements of a *neutral* standard, if the proposed spec actually
meets said standards, and if said spec is actually going to be
approved sometimes this side of '09.

Effectively, we've watched it essentially progress into a standard
that effectively only the paludis folk are adherent to (if in doubt,
ask portage folk, my sending this mail is indicative of the pkgcore
standpoint)- it's about time the council comment upon it in light of
the general view.

Yes, ciaran shall comment. My request still stands.
Thanks,
~harring
 
Old 06-11-2008, 11:19 AM
"Fernando J. Pereda"
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On 11 Jun 2008, at 13:11, Brian Harring wrote:


On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 03:06:17AM +0000, Mike Frysinger wrote:

This is your one-day friendly reminder ! The monthly Gentoo Council
meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net. See the
channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).

If you're supposed to show up, please show up. If you're not
supposed

to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
for you.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our
homepage:

http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/


Reiterating the early request, I'd like the council to please discuss
the current status of PMS, if the running of it satisfys the councils
requirements of a *neutral* standard, if the proposed spec actually
meets said standards, and if said spec is actually going to be
approved sometimes this side of '09.

Effectively, we've watched it essentially progress into a standard
that effectively only the paludis folk are adherent to (if in doubt,
ask portage folk, my sending this mail is indicative of the pkgcore
standpoint)- it's about time the council comment upon it in light of
the general view.


Did you send patches for those parts you don't agree with?

- ferdy
--
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:22 AM
David Leverton
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Wednesday 11 June 2008 12:11:33 Brian Harring wrote:
> Effectively, we've watched it essentially progress into a standard
> that effectively only the paludis folk are adherent to (if in doubt,
> ask portage folk, my sending this mail is indicative of the pkgcore
> standpoint)- it's about time the council comment upon it in light of
> the general view.

Paludis isn't completely compliant either. Not sure what you're referring to
about portage and pkgcore... if you mean kdebuild, then a) the Council has
decided that that won't be part of the official approved version, and b) PMS
only describes what kdebuild is, it doesn't say that any package manager has
to implement it. As long as it's not being used in the main tree, that's up
to the package manager maintainers, and what they think is most beneficial to
their users.

If you mean something else, feel free to file bugs, it could well be just an
oversight.
--
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:09 PM
Donnie Berkholz
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On 04:11 Wed 11 Jun , Brian Harring wrote:
> Reiterating the early request, I'd like the council to please discuss
> the current status of PMS,

People actually working on the PMS would be better-placed to discuss its
current status, if by that you mean progress toward an approved spec.
The last I heard was a couple months ago when Ciaran asked us whether
there were any further major issues and removed kdebuild-1 from the PDF
to be approved.

> if the running of it satisfys the councils requirements of a *neutral*
> standard, if the proposed spec actually meets said standards,

Anyone working on a package manager (and anyone else suitably
knowledgeable) should be able to get commit access to it. The only
person "running" it is doing so by virtue of making the most commits.

> and if said spec is actually going to be approved sometimes this side
> of '09.

This is basically the same as the first question from my ability to
answer it.

> Effectively, we've watched it essentially progress into a standard
> that effectively only the paludis folk are adherent to (if in doubt,
> ask portage folk, my sending this mail is indicative of the pkgcore
> standpoint)- it's about time the council comment upon it in light of
> the general view.

I'd like to know what's holding you back from contributing to it,
instead of telling us that someone else is doing things you don't like.
Is there some kind of technical barrier (like the TeX)? Or what? Are you
filing bugs against the parts you don't like? What's happening to them?

Thanks,
Donnie
--
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Old 06-12-2008, 05:14 PM
Mike Frysinger
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Thursday 12 June 2008, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 04:11 Wed 11 Jun , Brian Harring wrote:
> > Reiterating the early request, I'd like the council to please discuss
> > the current status of PMS,
>
> People actually working on the PMS would be better-placed to discuss its
> current status, if by that you mean progress toward an approved spec.
> The last I heard was a couple months ago when Ciaran asked us whether
> there were any further major issues and removed kdebuild-1 from the PDF
> to be approved.

he was told to remove kdebuild-1 from the repo and this has yet to happen

> > Effectively, we've watched it essentially progress into a standard
> > that effectively only the paludis folk are adherent to (if in doubt,
> > ask portage folk, my sending this mail is indicative of the pkgcore
> > standpoint)- it's about time the council comment upon it in light of
> > the general view.
>
> I'd like to know what's holding you back from contributing to it,
> instead of telling us that someone else is doing things you don't like.
> Is there some kind of technical barrier (like the TeX)? Or what? Are you
> filing bugs against the parts you don't like? What's happening to them?

TeX isnt a format that integrates with Gentoo. should just convert it to
docbook and be done with this garbage.
-mike
 
Old 06-12-2008, 05:29 PM
"Santiago M. Mola"
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 12 June 2008, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>> On 04:11 Wed 11 Jun , Brian Harring wrote:
>> > Reiterating the early request, I'd like the council to please discuss
>> > the current status of PMS,
>>
>> People actually working on the PMS would be better-placed to discuss its
>> current status, if by that you mean progress toward an approved spec.
>> The last I heard was a couple months ago when Ciaran asked us whether
>> there were any further major issues and removed kdebuild-1 from the PDF
>> to be approved.
>
> he was told to remove kdebuild-1 from the repo and this has yet to happen
>

This shouldn't block PMS discussions. There's an up to date copy in
pdf of PMS built without kdebuild at
http://dev.gentoo.org/~coldwind/pms-without-kdebuild.pdf

Regards,
--
Santiago M. Mola
Jabber ID: cooldwind@gmail.com
--
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list
 
Old 06-12-2008, 05:41 PM
David Leverton
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Thursday 12 June 2008 18:14:21 Mike Frysinger wrote:
> he was told to remove kdebuild-1 from the repo and this has yet to happen

I just checked the April meeting log, and while I admit I didn't read every
word from start to finish, all I could see was that kdebuild couldn't be in
the final, official version. In particular, you yourself wrote:

22:36 < vapier@> i generate the pms for reference. it better not include
anything that hasnt been approved.

It looks like that isn't the default in current git, but it's trivial to fix
if that's what people want.

If I missed something in the log, or if this was discussed somewhere else,
please let me know.

> TeX isnt a format that integrates with Gentoo. should just convert it to
> docbook and be done with this garbage.

I would think that anyone proposing such a disruptive change at this point
should either give a damn good reason or do the work themselves, preferably
both. I can't even figure out what "integrates with Gentoo" means, let alone
decide whether it counts as "damn good". (And if you're suggesting DocBook
as an alternative, it can't possibly mean "is the same as all the other
Gentoo documentation".)
--
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Old 06-12-2008, 06:03 PM
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 13:14:21 -0400
Mike Frysinger <vapier@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Thursday 12 June 2008, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > On 04:11 Wed 11 Jun , Brian Harring wrote:
> > > Reiterating the early request, I'd like the council to please
> > > discuss the current status of PMS,
> >
> > People actually working on the PMS would be better-placed to
> > discuss its current status, if by that you mean progress toward an
> > approved spec. The last I heard was a couple months ago when Ciaran
> > asked us whether there were any further major issues and removed
> > kdebuild-1 from the PDF to be approved.
>
> he was told to remove kdebuild-1 from the repo and this has yet to
> happen

No, I was told to remove kdebuild-1 from the version sent to the
Council for approval. Doing so is just a case of toggling a switch in
PMS.

Also, until they were all mysteriously fired, Gentoo's KDE people were
planning to ask the Council for official approval of kdebuild-1 so that
it could remain in PMS. So that's still up in the air too.

> > I'd like to know what's holding you back from contributing to it,
> > instead of telling us that someone else is doing things you don't
> > like. Is there some kind of technical barrier (like the TeX)? Or
> > what? Are you filing bugs against the parts you don't like? What's
> > happening to them?
>
> TeX isnt a format that integrates with Gentoo. should just convert
> it to docbook and be done with this garbage.

And docbook does integrate with Gentoo? Please point me to other Gentoo
documentation that uses docbook.

Also, I've yet to be told how to get automatic, verified,
zero-work-upon-relocation cross-document links using either docbook or
guidexml. Perhaps you'd care to explain.

--
Ciaran McCreesh
 
Old 06-12-2008, 07:34 PM
Doug Goldstein
 
Default One-Day Gentoo Council Reminder for June

Brian Harring wrote:

On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 03:06:17AM +0000, Mike Frysinger wrote:


This is your one-day friendly reminder ! The monthly Gentoo Council
meeting is tomorrow in #gentoo-council on irc.freenode.net. See the
channel topic for the exact time (but it's probably 2000 UTC).

If you're supposed to show up, please show up. If you're not supposed
to show up, then show up anyways and watch your Council monkeys dance
for you.

For more info on the Gentoo Council, feel free to browse our homepage:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/council/



Reiterating the early request, I'd like the council to please discuss
the current status of PMS, if the running of it satisfys the councils
requirements of a *neutral* standard, if the proposed spec actually
meets said standards, and if said spec is actually going to be
approved sometimes this side of '09.


Effectively, we've watched it essentially progress into a standard
that effectively only the paludis folk are adherent to (if in doubt,
ask portage folk, my sending this mail is indicative of the pkgcore
standpoint)- it's about time the council comment upon it in light of
the general view.


Yes, ciaran shall comment. My request still stands.
Thanks,
~harring

I'd honestly like to see an official PMS project page i.e.
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/pms/


On this page it'd be nice if there was an official link to the current
PMS instead of having to rely on grabbing it from random locations i.e.
d.g.o/~coldwind/ or d.g.o/~spb/

--
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