On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 15:35 -0400, Doug Goldstein wrote:
>
> The Gentoo Foundation and the Gentoo Council are two different entities.

But the one Gentoo

Two heads one body. Usually doesn't work for most animals or humans. One
ends up being a parasite to the other.

> For further reference please refer to the FreeBSD Foundation and the
> FreeBSD Project.

Ok

http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/about.shtml

"The FreeBSD Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated
to supporting the FreeBSD Project."

It's clear the that BSD Foundation is directly tied to the BSD project.
I am not sure what you are reading to thing otherwise.

"The FreeBSD Foundation will support both the development and the
popularization of FreeBSD, the world's best open source operating
system"

More so when in that page it goes into things like

"Development of software for FreeBSD to benefit the user and developer
community, including contract development of critical system
infrastructure, porting of closed source applications such as Java(TM)."

IMHO I would like the council to have say over matters like that with
trustees/the foundation only being a liaison.

> What you're implying is that the Gentoo Foundation is
> over/owns the Gentoo Council.

That is a issue of power, which has no bearings on what I am talking
about. I am implying the two area attached to the same body. Thus the
they should work together as a whole unit/single organization.

Not this two entities crap, one body.

> Which is completely and categorically wrong.

Provide facts to prove that.

--
William L. Thomson Jr.
amd64/Java/Trustees
Gentoo Foundation

On 15:53 Fri 06 Jun , William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/about.shtml
>
> "The FreeBSD Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated
> to supporting the FreeBSD Project."
>
> It's clear the that BSD Foundation is directly tied to the BSD project.
> I am not sure what you are reading to thing otherwise.

I looked through the articles of incorporation and the bylaws, under the
documents section of their website. Nowhere is mentioned anything
related to how the project itself is governed. It's very much a
boilerplate template saying "we're a nonprofit related to computers, and
that's about it."

Thanks,
Donnie
--
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 14:13 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> On 15:53 Fri 06 Jun , William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> > http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/about.shtml
> >
> > "The FreeBSD Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated
> > to supporting the FreeBSD Project."
> >
> > It's clear the that BSD Foundation is directly tied to the BSD project.
> > I am not sure what you are reading to thing otherwise.
>
> I looked through the articles of incorporation and the bylaws, under the
> documents section of their website. Nowhere is mentioned anything
> related to how the project itself is governed.

So we would be different from BSD in this regard. Are we trying to be
like others? Our current structure is unlike any others. Our entire
distro is unlike any other. So why are we trying to compare apples to
oranges?

Where is BSD's GLEP 39? Or where is their council talked about or
mentioned?

> It's very much a
> boilerplate template saying "we're a nonprofit related to computers, and
> that's about it."

Instead of all this speculation. Would you all like me to open a dialog
with the BSD folks and get details from within? With regard to how their
foundation and project relate to each other.

As for their Bylaws, if they aren't cover things we are. Is that reason
for us to omit those things from ours?

The BSD foundation doesn't seem to be accounting for sponsors services
and etc. Does that mean we should not either? Possibly but that
particular decision should be made by a Certified Public Accountant.
Which I don't think any Gentoo Developer is currently.

--
William L. Thomson Jr.
amd64/Java/Trustees
Gentoo Foundation

On 17:55 Fri 06 Jun , William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 14:13 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
> > On 15:53 Fri 06 Jun , William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> > > http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/about.shtml
> > >
> > > "The FreeBSD Foundation is a 501(c)(3) non-profit organization dedicated
> > > to supporting the FreeBSD Project."
> > >
> > > It's clear the that BSD Foundation is directly tied to the BSD project.
> > > I am not sure what you are reading to thing otherwise.
> >
> > I looked through the articles of incorporation and the bylaws, under the
> > documents section of their website. Nowhere is mentioned anything
> > related to how the project itself is governed.
>
> So we would be different from BSD in this regard. Are we trying to be
> like others? Our current structure is unlike any others. Our entire
> distro is unlike any other. So why are we trying to compare apples to
> oranges?

Like comparing Gentoo to a single-brained animal with multiple heads? No
comparisons are perfect, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to learn
from them because we're so unique.

> Where is BSD's GLEP 39? Or where is their council talked about or
> mentioned?

Some related pages:

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/dev-model/index.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/dev-model/model-orgstruct.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/dev-model/sect-hats.html#ROLE-CORE
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/dev-model/process-core-election.html
http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/dev-model/process-reactions.html

> > It's very much a
> > boilerplate template saying "we're a nonprofit related to computers, and
> > that's about it."
>
> Instead of all this speculation. Would you all like me to open a dialog
> with the BSD folks and get details from within? With regard to how their
> foundation and project relate to each other.
>
> As for their Bylaws, if they aren't cover things we are. Is that reason
> for us to omit those things from ours?
>
> The BSD foundation doesn't seem to be accounting for sponsors services
> and etc. Does that mean we should not either? Possibly but that
> particular decision should be made by a Certified Public Accountant.
> Which I don't think any Gentoo Developer is currently.

It might be part of restricted income contributions on the profit & loss
report.

Thanks,
Donnie
--
gentoo-dev@lists.gentoo.org mailing list

On Fri, 2008-06-06 at 15:23 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:
>
> Like comparing Gentoo to a single-brained animal with multiple heads?

But that it is. You have two entities, that both are related to Gentoo
in some form. Overlapping membership, staff, interests, etc.

> No comparisons are perfect, but that doesn't mean there's nothing to learn
> from them because we're so unique.

I agree 100%. My logic is cherry pick what we like from each. Thus ideas
from Gnome Foundation ( paid business bull$hit "advisory" members ),
some from BSD Foundation ( dev travel grants, equipment/infra funding ),
and some from Debian ( Debconf )

> It might be part of restricted income contributions on the profit & loss
> report.

I believe it has to be accounted for in some form as "in kind"
donations. Non tangible goods and services that still have a value.
Definitely if we receive them on a re-occurring basis. Even more so if
other companies are using that as write off as a charitable expenses.
IRS will want to compare what they are deducting is showing up on the
other end.

--
William L. Thomson Jr.
amd64/Java/Trustees
Gentoo Foundation

Can you take this off-topic thread to the appropriate list? I'm pretty
tired with hearing the Foundation's self-promotional comments on how
important it is to development on this list. You guys have your own
list for that crap, as it is.

Thanks,

--
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Games Developer