FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Gentoo > Gentoo Desktop

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 03-21-2011, 04:22 AM
Brent Busby
 
Default System problems

On Mon, 21 Mar 2011, Lindsay Haisley wrote:

I don't know. According to the the ebuild notes with udev, the IDE
facility in the kernel is completely depricated and needs to be turned
off entirely to prevent unexpected results. If I build IDE as a
module, my concern is that the module will get auto-loaded and I'll be
back in the same boat. So I'll use a more recent kernel and turn IDE
off altogether and we'll see what happens.


Yes, turn the whole Pata section off. After that, everything should be
recognizable with "sd" rather than "hd" device names, in both Grub and
/etc/fstab. Also, to save yourself trouble, build the drivers for the
Sata subsystem and your particular controller chipset into the kernel,
and forget about initrd's. The only thing they're good for is distros
that have to run on whatever they're booting up on. The minute you have
to compile your own kernel to suit yourself, you might as well get rid
of the hassle of initrd's while you're at it.


--
+ Brent A. Busby + "We've all heard that a million monkeys
+ UNIX Systems Admin + banging on a million typewriters will
+ University of Chicago + eventually reproduce the entire works of
+ Physical Sciences Div. + Shakespeare. Now, thanks to the Internet,
+ James Franck Institute + we know this is not true." -Robert Wilensky
 
Old 03-21-2011, 07:57 AM
Roman Zilka
 
Default System problems

[reordered the paragraphs]

> Unless you have specific suggestions for me to
> try out, you might want to stand by until I've had a chance to take a
> shot at the problem with the newer kernel.

I do have a few. I hope you'll make a good use of them to make your
life more productive.

> > And I need to see your conf to discover such potential
> > mistakes. As for `emerge --info`, it may uncover problems relevant in
> > this case too.
>
> "emerge --info" is the the stock Gentoo system profile, and I'll be
> happy to share it, but in this case I'm looking at what's almost a
> "pre-Gentoo" issue, involving the kernel and the boot-up.

This sounds like you're sure that there is nothing interesting to
see in `emerge --info`. Well, let's change it into something more
correct: according to your knowledge there is nothing interesting to
see. But your knowledge isn't perfect (just like anyone's). Keeping
that in mind while consulting with others is the first of my specific
suggestions into the future. It will save your+our time and may get you
the solution faster.

> > Please, cooperate with those whom you'd asked for help. Writing these
> > several paragraphs worth of e-mail text as a reply was a waste of time
> > for you - it clearly hasn't produced any help at all regarding your
> > booting issue.
>
> Taking the desktop system off-line, re-emerging udev, bringing it up
> into its failure mode with a newer kernel and pulling the necessary
> pieces together, then backing out and putting everything back so the
> system is actually fairly usable is a major hassle. I have had _zero_
> time to work on this problem since I posted this morning, but will be
> able to take another run at it this evening, hopefully. Writing is no
> effort for me, and doesn't disable my desktop

The second of my specific suggestions into a more fruitful future is:
read what people ask of you. Sending me what I'd asked for would've
taken about a few dozen seconds (I suppose you have the config for
2.6.29 stored somewhere). It certainly wouldn't entail taking your
desktop offline, reemerging udev, etc. etc. It's just attaching two
text files to a piece of e-mail. So if your current attempt at 2.6.36
(was it?) fails, you know what to do right away.

> > And some of those are relatively serious security holes and it'd take a
> > really special handling of the system to avoid them. And I'm talking
> > about handling that'd probably render an Internet-connected desktop box
> > with a web browser unusable.
>
> This desktop box is on an RFC-1918 masqueraded network. It has zero
> exposure to the Internet, except insofar as the firewall will permit
> traffic from related and established connections, as per the firewall
> NAT rules. The only other person on the LAN is my sweetie, and as far
> as I know I can trust her not to black-hat hack my desktop system :-)
> All my professional work is done via VPNs to my client's systems.

The third suggestion is probably the most important one: being NAT'd
and being behind any iptables configuration (that allows for operations
such as sending mail and browsing the web) doesn't make your PC
invulnerable or anything near that. In other words, active break-in
attempts via open ports is by far not the only option hackers have.

> Rather than
> posting my entire kernel .config, emerge --info and /etc/fstab to this
> list, which I consider questionable netiquette, I'll put it on my
> personal file space on one of my servers and post the URL.

In fact, some people who've appeared on this list over the years would
consider it unacceptably bad netiquette not to include `emerge --info`.
I also recall people who would consider it bad netiquette, but would
still answer your questions (perhaps with some remarks). And I suppose
most others consider it at least a good idea and a potential time-saver
to include it, unless the topic in question is "what laptop should I
buy to run Gentoo". So there goes my last specific suggestion to help
you make a more efficient use of this list: include your `emerge
--info` and relevant config files, if any, in the opening post to a
mailinglist. It's not like you're telling us your card number.

-rz
 
Old 03-21-2011, 03:18 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default System problems

On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 09:57 +0100, Roman Zilka wrote:
> I do have a few. I hope you'll make a good use of them to make your
> life more productive.

Good heavens, Roman! Please let's back off on the lectures and stick to
the technical stuff. When I have a chance to fully a address the
problem again, if I still have a problem I will take the information you
request and post it, as I said, to a private URL, which I will post to
this list, and NOT send it out to a gazillion subscribers who aren't
interested. This is the way patches, configs, emerge --info, etc is
done on many forums and mailing lists. This is the way it WILL be done
in this case, and I'm sure you can deal with it.

This is NOT an operation of a few dozen seconds. I will post to this
list when I have time to fully focus on the problem. In the meantime, I
don't intend to argue with you or anyone else about what does or does
not constitute proper netiquette. I'm 69 years old, have been
programming in numerous languages and working with Unix since the mid
80s, have been working with Linux since kernel v1.x.x in the 90s, am
past president of the oldest Unix pofessional society in Austin, TX,
co-founder of the oldest Linux Users Group in Austin, have moderated
more mailing lists than I care to remember, run a small but well
respected hosting service here, and am not without knowledge and
resources. I come to this list with this problem not because you, or
anyone else "knows more than I do", but because people may have
technical insights or suggestions that may help me understand what's
going on. Let's keep it to that going forward.

> The second of my specific suggestions into a more fruitful future is:
> read what people ask of you.

Jesus, Roman! BACK OFF!! I'm sorry if I offended you, but your
response is offensive to me. All it does is annoy me and encourage the
script kiddies on the list to take cheap shots at me. I appreciate your
insights, but please let's stick to the technical issues. _IF_ I need
to, I will post the material you request in the manner I've noted
previously, at such time as I have my work on the problem better
organized. Don't waste my time, and I won't waste yours. OK?

Again, I sincerely apologize if I've wasted your time, or anyone else's
on this list, and I'll try to keep my posts to a minimum going forward
until I have more to report. Again, going forward, PLEASE stick to
technical matters and let's let issues of style, netiquette, etc. alone.
Thank you, and 'nuff said about that. And again, please accept my
apology.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "Never expect the people who caused a problem
FMP Computer Services | to solve it." - Albert Einstein
512-259-1190 |
http://www.fmp.com |
 
Old 03-21-2011, 04:09 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default System problems

Roman, et al, since you, and maybe others seem to be incredibly hot to
trot on my desktop booting issue, the files you requested are at

<http://www.fmp.com/~fmouse/vishnu/>

/etc/fstab (vishnu_fstab.txt) is configured as per the _working_ kernel
on the box, which is 2.6.21-gentoo-r1. When booting from a more recent
kernel, the 1st three lines will be changed to spec /dev/sdXn instead
of /dev/hdXn.

The kernel config (vishnu_kernel-2.6.29-gentoo-r5_config.txt) is suspect
at this point, as per Roman's information re. 2.6.29 being a thoroughly
discredited kernel version. This configuration will _not_ be used going
forward into a more recent kernel.

vishnu_emerge_info.txt is "emerge --info" from the box. I'm not sure
how this will give you any insight into the booting problem on the box,
but since you seem to have your knickers in a knot about my _not_
posting it, here it is :-)

Kernels on the box are built manually, using "make bzImage" and friends,
not using genkernel.

When I have some time to take the box down, upgrade the kernel and take
another shot at this problem, I'll update.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "Real programmers use butterflies"
FMP Computer Services |
512-259-1190 | - xkcd
http://www.fmp.com |
 
Old 03-21-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Default System problems

Jesus, take your meds already. Roman has only been trying to help you throughout this long sorry episode. This is NOT about your past Unix yada yada, but how well you follow kernel devel, won't look on the Gentoo forums for answers and generally take help. It is not make bzimage for one, it is make, make modules_install, make install. Boot with a Live CD and chroot into yer install, remove ALL options for IDE period. Check SATA. Build, change all HDxxx to SDxx run your bootloader and TADA fixed
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 11:18:07
To: <gentoo-desktop@lists.gentoo.org>
Reply-to: gentoo-desktop@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-desktop] System problems

On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 09:57 +0100, Roman Zilka wrote:
> I do have a few. I hope you'll make a good use of them to make your
> life more productive.

Good heavens, Roman! Please let's back off on the lectures and stick to
the technical stuff. When I have a chance to fully a address the
problem again, if I still have a problem I will take the information you
request and post it, as I said, to a private URL, which I will post to
this list, and NOT send it out to a gazillion subscribers who aren't
interested. This is the way patches, configs, emerge --info, etc is
done on many forums and mailing lists. This is the way it WILL be done
in this case, and I'm sure you can deal with it.

This is NOT an operation of a few dozen seconds. I will post to this
list when I have time to fully focus on the problem. In the meantime, I
don't intend to argue with you or anyone else about what does or does
not constitute proper netiquette. I'm 69 years old, have been
programming in numerous languages and working with Unix since the mid
80s, have been working with Linux since kernel v1.x.x in the 90s, am
past president of the oldest Unix pofessional society in Austin, TX,
co-founder of the oldest Linux Users Group in Austin, have moderated
more mailing lists than I care to remember, run a small but well
respected hosting service here, and am not without knowledge and
resources. I come to this list with this problem not because you, or
anyone else "knows more than I do", but because people may have
technical insights or suggestions that may help me understand what's
going on. Let's keep it to that going forward.

> The second of my specific suggestions into a more fruitful future is:
> read what people ask of you.

Jesus, Roman! BACK OFF!! I'm sorry if I offended you, but your
response is offensive to me. All it does is annoy me and encourage the
script kiddies on the list to take cheap shots at me. I appreciate your
insights, but please let's stick to the technical issues. _IF_ I need
to, I will post the material you request in the manner I've noted
previously, at such time as I have my work on the problem better
organized. Don't waste my time, and I won't waste yours. OK?

Again, I sincerely apologize if I've wasted your time, or anyone else's
on this list, and I'll try to keep my posts to a minimum going forward
until I have more to report. Again, going forward, PLEASE stick to
technical matters and let's let issues of style, netiquette, etc. alone.
Thank you, and 'nuff said about that. And again, please accept my
apology.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "Never expect the people who caused a problem
FMP Computer Services | to solve it." - Albert Einstein
512-259-1190 |
http://www.fmp.com |
 
Old 03-21-2011, 09:24 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default System problems

On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 20:08 +0000, eamjr56@bellsouth.net wrote:
> Jesus, take your meds already. Roman has only been trying to help you
> throughout this long sorry episode.

Please excuse yourself from any further postings to this thread. I have
asked you before to do this. If you would shut up, and if Roman would
stick to tech information rather than dispensing free social advice,
then this wouldn't be a "sorry episode", would it?

> This is NOT about your past Unix yada yada, but how well you follow
> kernel devel, won't look on the Gentoo forums for answers and
> generally take help.

Y'know, eamjr56, I have a life. I don't sit around all day and play
with my operating system. I have a lot of things to do _with_ my office
desktop system. I don't have a lot of spare time to mess with and fix
stuff that shouldn't need messing with and fixing. I came to this forum
because I thought I might get some insights into a specific problem I'm
having, and have been met mainly with rudeness by you and Roman,
although a couple of other people had useful/thougtful suggestions.
Isn't there a moderator on this list who understands how a technical
forum should be run?

I've posted the files that Roman wanted to see, and they're there for
anyone else to look at. So far, Roman hasn't offered me any "help" with
this problem, but has blown a lot of hot air on this forum suggesting
how I should run my life. I'm beginning to think that there aren't many
technically literate people on this forum. They've probably all
abandoned Gentoo and are using Debian or Ubuntu.

> It is not make bzimage for one, it is make, make modules_install, make
> install.

You need to read up on kernel building. "make bzImage && make modules"
has worked for kernel building since probably Linux kernel 1.x.x. Yes,
"make" will also work, and will combine these two operations into one,
but on occasion it's convenient to separate these.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "Fighting against human creativity is like
FMP Computer Services | trying to eradicate dandelions"
512-259-1190 | (Pamela Jones)
http://www.fmp.com |
 
Old 03-21-2011, 09:35 PM
Tiago Marques
 
Default System problems

On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com> wrote:


On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 20:08 +0000, eamjr56@bellsouth.net wrote:

> Jesus, take your meds already. Roman has only been trying to help you

> throughout this long sorry episode.



Please excuse yourself from any further postings to this thread. *I have

asked you before to do this. *If you would shut up, and if Roman would

stick to tech information rather than dispensing free social advice,

then this wouldn't be a "sorry episode", would it?



> This is NOT about your past Unix yada yada, but how well you follow

> kernel devel, won't look on the Gentoo forums for answers and

> generally take help.



Y'know, eamjr56, I have a life. *
Please go troll elsewhere. Please...

*

I don't sit around all day and play

with my operating system. *I have a lot of things to do _with_ my office

desktop system. *I don't have a lot of spare time to mess with and fix

stuff that shouldn't need messing with and fixing. *I came to this forum

because I thought I might get some insights into a specific problem I'm

having, and have been met mainly with rudeness by you and Roman,

although a couple of other people had useful/thougtful suggestions.

Isn't there a moderator on this list who understands how a technical

forum should be run?



I've posted the files that Roman wanted to see, and they're there for

anyone else to look at. *So far, Roman hasn't offered me any "help" with

this problem, but has blown a lot of hot air on this forum suggesting

how I should run my life. *I'm beginning to think that there aren't many

technically literate people on this forum. *They've probably all

abandoned Gentoo and are using Debian or Ubuntu.



> It is not make bzimage for one, it is make, make modules_install, make

> install.



You need to read up on kernel building. *"make bzImage && make modules"

has worked for kernel building since probably Linux kernel 1.x.x. *Yes,

"make" will also work, and will combine these two operations into one,

but on occasion it's convenient to separate these.



--

Lindsay Haisley * * * | "Fighting against human creativity is like

FMP Computer Services | * trying to eradicate dandelions"

512-259-1190 * * * * *| * *(Pamela Jones)

http://www.fmp.com * *|
 
Old 03-21-2011, 09:38 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default System problems

OK, Roman,

I've posted a new kernel config for 2.6.36-gentoo-r5. I haven't had a
chance to back down the system and try it out yet.

<http://www.fmp.com/~fmouse/vishnu/vishnu_kernel-2.6.36-gentoo-r5_config.txt>

This should be everything you wanted to see in order to impart some of
your great wisdom and infinite Linux knowledge to me ;-)

Other files you requested are shown in the index at
<http://www.fmp.com/~fmouse/vishnu/>, as previously noted.

Have at!

--
Lindsay Haisley | "Humor will get you through times of no humor
FMP Computer Services | better than no humor will get you through
512-259-1190 | times of humor."
http://www.fmp.com | - Butch Hancock
 
Old 03-21-2011, 09:42 PM
 
Default System problems

Sorry I won't because I keep getting spammed by your crap. And IF you were technical and logical, AND your reading comprehension skills were above normal you would have figured this problem on your own. You have a problem because you have'nt kept up with how the new Linux kernels work-(in ALL the distros) and we are the jerks because we have? I've been using Gentoo since 2001-(just letting you know how long I've been doing this) and I don't spend all my time admining my boxes either. BUT when the kernel change came about I was smart enough to look for answers on the forums and it was a smeamless upgrade. Your attitude and general interaction with others. Needs work. See Ya, now install Ubuntu and leave us in peace for god's sake.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2011 17:24:27
To: <gentoo-desktop@lists.gentoo.org>
Reply-to: gentoo-desktop@lists.gentoo.org
Subject: Re: [gentoo-desktop] System problems

On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 20:08 +0000, eamjr56@bellsouth.net wrote:
> Jesus, take your meds already. Roman has only been trying to help you
> throughout this long sorry episode.

Please excuse yourself from any further postings to this thread. I have
asked you before to do this. If you would shut up, and if Roman would
stick to tech information rather than dispensing free social advice,
then this wouldn't be a "sorry episode", would it?

> This is NOT about your past Unix yada yada, but how well you follow
> kernel devel, won't look on the Gentoo forums for answers and
> generally take help.

Y'know, eamjr56, I have a life. I don't sit around all day and play
with my operating system. I have a lot of things to do _with_ my office
desktop system. I don't have a lot of spare time to mess with and fix
stuff that shouldn't need messing with and fixing. I came to this forum
because I thought I might get some insights into a specific problem I'm
having, and have been met mainly with rudeness by you and Roman,
although a couple of other people had useful/thougtful suggestions.
Isn't there a moderator on this list who understands how a technical
forum should be run?

I've posted the files that Roman wanted to see, and they're there for
anyone else to look at. So far, Roman hasn't offered me any "help" with
this problem, but has blown a lot of hot air on this forum suggesting
how I should run my life. I'm beginning to think that there aren't many
technically literate people on this forum. They've probably all
abandoned Gentoo and are using Debian or Ubuntu.

> It is not make bzimage for one, it is make, make modules_install, make
> install.

You need to read up on kernel building. "make bzImage && make modules"
has worked for kernel building since probably Linux kernel 1.x.x. Yes,
"make" will also work, and will combine these two operations into one,
but on occasion it's convenient to separate these.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "Fighting against human creativity is like
FMP Computer Services | trying to eradicate dandelions"
512-259-1190 | (Pamela Jones)
http://www.fmp.com |
 
Old 03-21-2011, 09:44 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default System problems

On Mon, 2011-03-21 at 22:35 +0000, Tiago Marques wrote:
> Please go troll elsewhere. Please...

Let's just bring this back to technical discussion of the problem, shall
we? I think that's what's needed here.

Roman wanted to see some of my system information and config files,
which I've made available. He thinks he may be able to shed some light
on the problem, so the ball is in his court, or in anyone else's who has
thoughts or observations on them related to the boot problem here.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "We are all broken toasters, but we still
FMP Computer Services | manage to make toast"
512-259-1190 |
http://www.fmp.com | - Cheryl Dehut
|
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 11:13 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org