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Old 07-23-2008, 06:01 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

I've followed the progress of udev and friends with interest, but as the
project has matured it seems that it's become harder to do things I used
to do easily.

In particular, I used to be able to pop a CD of saved email into my CD
drive and have it auto-mount on /mnt/cdrom. I have /mnt/cdrom symlinked
to the proper directory for a Maildir file structure which is recognized
by Evolution, so I could automatically mount last year's incoming email,
for instance, as an Inbox folder in Evolution simply by inserting the CD
in the drive.

These days, CDs get mounted as /media/<volume name> which is pretty hard
to script back into a Maildir struct for Evolution, since back email CDs
have volume names representative of their contents - i.e. all different.
Ideally, what I'd like to be able to do is have the CD auto-mounted on
_both_ /media/<volume name> and /mnt/cdrom, and I've tried scripting
udev rules to do this, but what I used to do no longer works. I had
scripts in /etc/dev.d which worked nicely for this, but /etc/dev.d is
apparently no longer supported in udev.

Any suggestions?

--
Lindsay Haisley | "We are all broken | PGP public key
FMP Computer Services | toasters, but we | available at
512-259-1190 | still manage to make |<http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com | toast" |
| (Cheryl Dehut) |
 
Old 07-24-2008, 08:38 AM
Duncan
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com> posted
1216836080.25895.28.camel@vishnu.fmp.com, excerpted below, on Wed, 23 Jul
2008 13:01:20 -0500:

> These days, CDs get mounted as /media/<volume name> which is pretty hard
> to script back into a Maildir struct for Evolution, since back email CDs
> have volume names representative of their contents - i.e. all different.
> Ideally, what I'd like to be able to do is have the CD auto-mounted on
> _both_ /media/<volume name> and /mnt/cdrom, and I've tried scripting
> udev rules to do this, but what I used to do no longer works. I had
> scripts in /etc/dev.d which worked nicely for this, but /etc/dev.d is
> apparently no longer supported in udev.

AFAIK, it's not udev doing this, but hal. Thus your changes to udev
wouldn't have the desired effect.

I ran into something similar with k3b. Hal used to work fine, using its
defaults only if there was no fstab entry for that device, using the
fstab entry if there was. Now hal screws things up by insisting on doing
things /its/ way, despite a perfectly valid system config, and k3b looks
in the system configured spot while hal's putting it somewhere else.
There's an open bug on k3b, but I really think it should be on hal since
hal's what's breaking a previously working config by insisting on doing
things its own way instead of following the otherwise perfectly fine
system config.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
 
Old 07-31-2008, 06:35 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

So where is this configured? I have /etc/hal/, which contains hald.conf
and /etc/conf.d/hald. Both of these look pretty much like placeholder
files and don't say anything about how CDs should be mounted. Where
does this configuration live?

On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 08:38 +0000, Duncan wrote:
> AFAIK, it's not udev doing this, but hal. Thus your changes to udev
> wouldn't have the desired effect.
>
> I ran into something similar with k3b. Hal used to work fine, using its
> defaults only if there was no fstab entry for that device, using the
> fstab entry if there was. Now hal screws things up by insisting on doing
> things /its/ way, despite a perfectly valid system config, and k3b looks
> in the system configured spot while hal's putting it somewhere else.
> There's an open bug on k3b, but I really think it should be on hal since
> hal's what's breaking a previously working config by insisting on doing
> things its own way instead of following the otherwise perfectly fine
> system config.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "The voice of dissent | PGP public key
FMP Computer Services | was arrested before the | available at
512-259-1190 | president cleared his | http://pubkeys.fmp.com
http://www.fmp.com | throat to speak |
| of freedom" |
| (Chris Chandler) |
 
Old 07-31-2008, 11:43 PM
Duncan
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com> posted
1217529348.765.22.camel@vishnu.fmp.com, excerpted below, on Thu, 31 Jul
2008 13:35:48 -0500:

> So where is this configured? I have /etc/hal/, which contains hald.conf
> and /etc/conf.d/hald. Both of these look pretty much like placeholder
> files and don't say anything about how CDs should be mounted. Where
> does this configuration live?

I'm not sure. The k3b bug is still open, AFAIK, and it got in beyond my
level. Last time I burned something I just did the verify manually,
pointing md5sum at the (correct) device and at the ISO and comparing the
two -- they matched so I was happy, and I've not burned anything else in
the couple months or whatever since.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
 
Old 08-02-2008, 10:10 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 23:43 +0000, Duncan wrote:
> > So where is this configured? I have /etc/hal/, which contains hald.conf
> > and /etc/conf.d/hald. Both of these look pretty much like placeholder
> > files and don't say anything about how CDs should be mounted. Where
> > does this configuration live?
>
> I'm not sure. The k3b bug is still open, AFAIK, and it got in beyond my
> level. Last time I burned something I just did the verify manually,
> pointing md5sum at the (correct) device and at the ISO and comparing the
> two -- they matched so I was happy, and I've not burned anything else in
> the couple months or whatever since.

This is a Royal PITA! We need to have, preferably as an easy to
configure option, a consistent, named, filesystem location on which a
particular device will mount, identified by the media type ("cdrom") or
some other predictable name. I have a photo cataloging program I wrote
which expects to find all photo CDs, which have different names
reflecting dates and sequence, mounted at a location which can be
specified in its config file. There are all kinds of applications which
expect this!

--
Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between | PGP public key
FMP Computer Services | a duck is that one leg | available at
512-259-1190 | is both the same" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com
http://www.fmp.com | - Anonymous |
 
Old 08-02-2008, 10:26 PM
Duncan
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com> posted
1217715027.11765.5.camel@vishnu.fmp.com, excerpted below, on Sat, 02 Aug
2008 17:10:27 -0500:

> This is a Royal PITA! We need to have, preferably as an easy to
> configure option, a consistent, named, filesystem location on which a
> particular device will mount, identified by the media type ("cdrom") or
> some other predictable name. I have a photo cataloging program I wrote
> which expects to find all photo CDs, which have different names
> reflecting dates and sequence, mounted at a location which can be
> specified in its config file. There are all kinds of applications which
> expect this!

It's the automount stuff that's breaking. If I just tell the hal/kde
popup to ignore the new media, and mount it manually, it works as
expected (mount still uses fstab, thank goodness). If I let hal mount
it, it does so but then I have to figure out where. So just not using
hal works in general; it was just the k3b thing that triggered a problem
here, because in that specific instance, right after a burn when it tries
to verify, apparently hal interferes, and there isn't a lot I can do to
avoid it, except doing the verify manually.

That's why I've not experienced serious problems elsewhere, however. I
tend to be very suspicious of automounting, etc, and in general don't use
it, preferring to issue the mount command directly, so I haven't had a
problem in general, only in that corner-case.

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman



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Old 08-03-2008, 12:36 AM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 22:26 +0000, Duncan wrote:
> It's the automount stuff that's breaking. If I just tell the hal/kde
> popup to ignore the new media, and mount it manually, it works as
> expected (mount still uses fstab, thank goodness). If I let hal mount
> it, it does so but then I have to figure out where. So just not using
> hal works in general; it was just the k3b thing that triggered a problem
> here, because in that specific instance, right after a burn when it tries
> to verify, apparently hal interferes, and there isn't a lot I can do to
> avoid it, except doing the verify manually.

Well you can supposedly turn the automount stuff off from the System |
Preferences | Removable Drives and Media dialog. I've not messed with
this, but perhaps it would be a good idea to explore it. If it works
and turns off HAL-supported automounting then perhaps udev could be
configured to automount a CD on /mnt/cdrom, which would help me, or
turned off altogether to allow manual mounting, which would probably
benefit your situation.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "We are all broken | PGP public key
FMP Computer Services | toasters, but we | available at
512-259-1190 | still manage to make |<http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com | toast" |
| (Cheryl Dehut) |
 
Old 02-02-2009, 01:18 AM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

Duncan (et al), I _finally_ found a solution (pretty much) to this
problem! Some inquiries on one of the gentoo forums gave me some clues
for further research and I turned up the following on an openSUSE forum:

http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Mounting_to_Static_Mount_Points

It works fine for gnome in Gentoo, and I've seen some comments
indicating that it's also helpful in KDE.

On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 22:26 +0000, Duncan wrote:
> Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com> posted
> 1217715027.11765.5.camel@vishnu.fmp.com, excerpted below, on Sat, 02 Aug
> 2008 17:10:27 -0500:
>
> > This is a Royal PITA! We need to have, preferably as an easy to
> > configure option, a consistent, named, filesystem location on which a
> > particular device will mount, identified by the media type ("cdrom") or
> > some other predictable name. I have a photo cataloging program I wrote
> > which expects to find all photo CDs, which have different names
> > reflecting dates and sequence, mounted at a location which can be
> > specified in its config file. There are all kinds of applications which
> > expect this!
>
> It's the automount stuff that's breaking. If I just tell the hal/kde
> popup to ignore the new media, and mount it manually, it works as
> expected (mount still uses fstab, thank goodness). If I let hal mount
> it, it does so but then I have to figure out where. So just not using
> hal works in general; it was just the k3b thing that triggered a problem
> here, because in that specific instance, right after a burn when it tries
> to verify, apparently hal interferes, and there isn't a lot I can do to
> avoid it, except doing the verify manually.
>
> That's why I've not experienced serious problems elsewhere, however. I
> tend to be very suspicious of automounting, etc, and in general don't use
> it, preferring to issue the mount command directly, so I haven't had a
> problem in general, only in that corner-case.

--
Lindsay Haisley | "We are all broken | PGP public key
FMP Computer Services | toasters, but we | available at
512-259-1190 | still manage to make |<http://pubkeys.fmp.com>
http://www.fmp.com | toast" |
| (Cheryl Dehut) |
 
Old 02-02-2009, 06:43 AM
Duncan
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com> posted
1233541115.12692.3.camel@vishnu.fmp.com, excerpted below, on Sun, 01 Feb
2009 20:18:35 -0600:

> On Sat, 2008-08-02 at 22:26 +0000, Duncan wrote:
>> Lindsay Haisley <fmouse-gentoo@fmp.com> posted
>> 1217715027.11765.5.camel@vishnu.fmp.com, excerpted below, on Sat, 02
>> Aug 2008 17:10:27 -0500:
>>
>> > This is a Royal PITA! We need to have, preferably as an easy to
>> > configure option, a consistent, named, filesystem location on which a
>> > particular device will mount, identified by the media type ("cdrom")
>> > or some other predictable name. I have a photo cataloging program I
>> > wrote which expects to find all photo CDs, which have different names
>> > reflecting dates and sequence, mounted at a location which can be
>> > specified in its config file. There are all kinds of applications
>> > which expect this!
>>
>> It's the automount stuff that's breaking. If I just tell the hal/kde
>> popup to ignore the new media, and mount it manually, it works as
>> expected (mount still uses fstab, thank goodness).

> Duncan (et al), I _finally_ found a solution (pretty much) to this
> problem! Some inquiries on one of the gentoo forums gave me some clues
> for further research and I turned up the following on an openSUSE forum:
>
> http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Mounting_to_Static_Mount_Points
>
> It works fine for gnome in Gentoo, and I've seen some comments
> indicating that it's also helpful in KDE.

Reordered to standard quote/reply format...

Thanks for that link!

Those *.fdi files can be headaches in other cases as well and
unfortunately aren't as easy to find proper documentation on as the
traditional configuration they replace. It may be great for newbies, but
it sure gives *ix traditionalists headaches when stuff doesn't work as
the *ix gods intended it to! =:^)

In another case, newer xorg can ignore the xorg.conf setting for keyboard
and mouse until the proper "magic" incantation is added. (Section
Serverflags, Option "AllowEmptyInput" 0) In theory, *.fdi files are
supposed to take over, but while the most basic ones work, non-standard
keyboard layouts and etc don't without tweaking the appropriate *.fdi
files, but the documentation of exactly what and where to tweak them is
way harder to come by than say the xorg.conf manpage, and doesn't exist
at all in some cases. So for now, I just keep that serverflags entry and
the traditional xorg.conf entries still work as they should.

But at least now I have some sort of documentation available for the hal
automount stuff! That's certainly useful and the link is going in my
bookmarks right now. Thanks again!

--
Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs.
"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master --
and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman
 
Old 02-02-2009, 04:14 PM
Lindsay Haisley
 
Default CD-ROM mounting

On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 07:43 +0000, Duncan wrote:
> Those *.fdi files can be headaches in other cases as well and
> unfortunately aren't as easy to find proper documentation on as the
> traditional configuration they replace. It may be great for newbies, but
> it sure gives *ix traditionalists headaches when stuff doesn't work as
> the *ix gods intended it to! =:^)

You hit that nail spot-on, buddy! I cut my teeth in Internet-land back
in the 90s on BSDI Unix and learned the standard *ix way of doing
things. The Unix toolset was a huge tinkertoy set that could be cobbled
and molded to fit just about any need we had. Some of it was klunky and
awkward, but it just worked! If you didn't understand how to use a
tool, there was a man page, and so I learned to read and understand the
particular brand of pigin-English geek-ish used in most man pages. I
was never one of those Unix fanatics who insisted on using emacs for
everything, but I dam sure appreciated the structure and the text-based
configuration of everything.

And I don't think there's a Linux newbie out there, no matter how
brilliant, who wouldn't just scratch his head and throw up his hands
over this kind of problem. I had to hunt for 6 months for a solution to
the CD mounting problem before I happened to find one.

I certainly understand the advantages of XML, and I wouldn't mind if
standard configurations for essential services were migrated into XML
format, but so far, the lack of concise and centralized documentation, a
la man pages and even info or html files, is appalling! Narry even a
DTD file for the XML stuff. Bah!!

> In another case, newer xorg can ignore the xorg.conf setting for keyboard
> and mouse until the proper "magic" incantation is added. (Section
> Serverflags, Option "AllowEmptyInput" 0) In theory, *.fdi files are
> supposed to take over, but while the most basic ones work, non-standard
> keyboard layouts and etc don't without tweaking the appropriate *.fdi
> files, but the documentation of exactly what and where to tweak them is
> way harder to come by than say the xorg.conf manpage, and doesn't exist
> at all in some cases.

That's saying a lot, Duncan. The documentation on X has historically
been pretty scattered and fragmented, but in the case of .fdi files,
it's damn near nonexistent, which is worse.

If it works, don't fix it!

--
Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between | PGP public key
FMP Computer Services | a duck is that one leg | available at
512-259-1190 | is both the same" | http://pubkeys.fmp.com
http://www.fmp.com | - Anonymous |
 

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