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-   -   You too? youtoo! (http://www.linux-archive.org/gentoo-alt/414452-you-too-youtoo.html)

Florian CROUZAT 08-17-2010 09:24 PM

You too? youtoo!
 
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I'm not sure I understood your questions correctly, because you are basically describing the prefix project and calling it "a new idea" ?

On 17 août 2010, at 23:11, Elmar Hinz wrote:

> youtoo, short u2, does what it says. It brings gentoo to everybody, to
> the windows user, to the mac user, ... did I forget someone, well
> certainly also to un*x users.

Yeah, that's basically the description of gentoo-prefix.
Let me quote the first line of the prefix webpage: An effort to bring the virtues of Gentoo Linux to users on different operating systems, by means of installing in a "prefix".

> youtoo --prefix /home/user/gentoo/ --target gedit
> That would compile gedit into the given directory, with all required
> dependencies.

Replace youtoo by emerge, and it's gentoo-prefix.

> Everybody could run gentoo programs with user rights on any platform,
> always from the latests sources.

This is actually what gentoo-prefix does.

> Is that realistic?

Yes.

> Has somebody done it already?

Us ?

> Where are the pitfalls?

bugs.gentoo.org, search for gentoo/alt prefix.

> How big do you estimate the timely requirements to get a prove of concept?

A couple hours max, following the bootstrap guide, depending on your hardware.

- ----
Florian.
/ For security reasons, all text in this mail
is double-rot13 encrypted. /

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Elmar Hinz 08-17-2010 09:38 PM

You too? youtoo!
 
>
> Replace youtoo by emerge, and it's gentoo-prefix.


Great! Then please tell me, where I can download this emerge
installer, that installs me gedit on windows with a one liner.

I have missed the most important tool. ;-)

Al

"Gibson, John" 08-17-2010 11:22 PM

You too? youtoo!
 
On Aug 17, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Florian CROUZAT wrote:

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> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> I'm not sure I understood your questions correctly, because you are basically describing the prefix project and calling it "a new idea" ?

He wants to have a single prefix, or more realistically, a collection of prefixes for different platforms built from one platform with a single command. i.e. On my Mac I'd have several different prefixes, for brevity say:
/x86-macos
/amd64-macos
/ppc-macos
/linux-x86_64
/windows
etc.

Then I could issue a command like: "yootoo gedit" and it would emerge gedit (and all of the dependencies) into /x86-macos (what gentoo-prefix does now). Then it would emerge gedit (and all of the dependencies, which I'd guess are different for different host platforms) for each of the other prefixes (probably using a cross-compiler) so that the resulting binaries could be run on other systems.

Unless cross-compilers support in portage has improved since the last time I checked (admittedly, a couple of years ago) this is not trivial.

John

Jeremy Olexa 08-18-2010 02:39 AM

You too? youtoo!
 
Hello,

On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:11:00 +0200, Elmar Hinz
<oss.elmar@googlemail.com> wrote:
> To come a step forward with to my target I come up with this idea for
> the Prefix team. Get the vision is already in everybodies head.

To come a step forward, I would highly suggest that you actually try
out Gentoo Prefix in the current form. After you have this pre-req
experience THEN see if your idea applies. To be blunt, you don't have to
"come up with an idea" for the Prefix team, you have to implement your
idea using the tools the Prefix team provides.

> How big do you estimate the timely requirements to get a prove of concept?

For a single platform, not too long (I [inspired by others] made a
script that builds a prefix on linux every night). Again, you need
experience with the project first.

-Jeremy

Galaxy 08-18-2010 03:10 AM

You too? youtoo!
 
So, since gcc-4.4 requires '>=sys-libs/glibc-2.8', how can I install gcc-4.4 with host glibc-2.4 ?

> To come a step forward with to my target I come up with this idea for
> the Prefix team. Get the vision is already in everybodies head.

> youtoo, short u2, does what it says. It brings gentoo to everybody, to
> the windows user, to the mac user, ... did I forget someone, well
> certainly also to un*x users.

> youtoo --prefix /home/user/gentoo/ --target gedit

> That would compile gedit into the given directory, with all required
> dependencies.

> Everybody could run gentoo programs with user rights on any platform,
> always from the latests sources. If it works, it would become a kind
> of driving engine for the whole gentoo distribution.


> Is that realistic?

> Has somebody done it already?

> Where are the pitfalls?

> On windows it would i.e. include the installation of the cygwin
> compatibility layer, to get a Posix environment.

> What would you think about?

> How big do you estimate the timely requirements to get a prove of concept?

> Al

Florian CROUZAT 08-18-2010 06:40 AM

You too? youtoo!
 
On 18 août 2010, at 01:22, Gibson, John wrote:

> He wants to have a single prefix, or more realistically, a collection of prefixes for different platforms built from one platform with a single command. i.e. On my Mac I'd have several different prefixes, for brevity say:

Oh, okay, that was hard to guess from "youtoo --prefix /home/user/gentoo/ --target gedit" , can't see the chost in there.

-----
Florian.
/ For security reasons, all text in this mail
is double-rot13 encrypted. /

Elmar Hinz 08-18-2010 08:20 AM

You too? youtoo!
 
2010/8/18 Gibson, John <jgibson@mitre.org>:
> On Aug 17, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Florian CROUZAT wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure I understood your questions correctly, because you are basically describing the prefix project and calling it "a new idea" ?
>
> He wants to have a single prefix, or more realistically, a collection of prefixes for different platforms built from one platform with a single command. *i.e. On my Mac I'd have several different prefixes, for brevity say:
> /x86-macos
> /amd64-macos
> /ppc-macos
> /linux-x86_64
> /windows
> etc.
>
> Then I could issue a command like: "yootoo gedit" and it would emerge gedit (and all of the dependencies) into /x86-macos (what gentoo-prefix does now). *Then it would emerge gedit (and all of the dependencies, which I'd guess are different for different host platforms) for each of the other prefixes (probably using a cross-compiler) so that the resulting binaries could be run on other systems.
>
> Unless cross-compilers support in portage has improved since the last time I checked (admittedly, a couple of years ago) this is not trivial.
>
> John

That comes much closer. But my approach was, not to cross-compile it
all. It's rather to compile directly on the target machines including
windows.

From the windows user point of view I want to come to a small setup
skript, that fetches all from the net, then compiles and runs it until
gedit pops up, in our example.

First it downloads a Posix environment, then a minimal Gentoo base
including a compiler. Than it can starts compiling using emerge and
prefix. By this cross-compilation would not be necessary for all, but
only for the minimal startup base.

I don't know the exact steps and time such a skript would need. Before
digging deeper into it, I wanted to know if it is possible at all and
if that kind of skript already exists.

Al

Elmar Hinz 08-18-2010 08:36 AM

You too? youtoo!
 
2010/8/18 Jeremy Olexa <darkside@gentoo.org>:
> Hello,
>
> On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 23:11:00 +0200, Elmar Hinz
> <oss.elmar@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> To come a step forward with to my target I come up with this idea for
>> the Prefix team. Get the vision is already in everybodies head.
>
> To come a step forward, I would highly suggest that you actually try
> out Gentoo Prefix in the current form. After you have this pre-req
> experience THEN see if your idea applies. To be blunt, you don't have to
> "come up with an idea" for the Prefix team, you have to implement your
> idea using the tools the Prefix team provides.
>

You are absolutely right in this. That's why I am evaluating the usage
of gentoo and emerge during the last days. My next step will be to try
Prefix. Then I will have a deeper insight.

As I wrote, I don't want to come up with a new idea, I rather expect
that this vision is already around. I simply want to know, how far it
is implemented. It seems it isn't.

So I have to consider to implement it myself. But before I need to ask
myself it it is realistic to reach that target.


>> How big do you estimate the timely requirements to get a prove of concept?
>
> For a single platform, not too long (I [inspired by others] made a
> script that builds a prefix on linux every night). Again, you need
> experience with the project first.
>

That sounds good. For my original target it is necessary that you can
do it in standard windows environment, to reach a maximal base of
users. Hence the question if there a positive reports, to setup prefix
with Cygwin without the need an enterprise windows.

Al

Elmar Hinz 08-18-2010 08:40 AM

You too? youtoo!
 
2010/8/18 Galaxy <galaxy001@gmail.com>:
> So, since gcc-4.4 requires '>=sys-libs/glibc-2.8', how can I install gcc-4.4 with host glibc-2.4 ?
>

Isn't that why people use a prefix at all? To install different
implementations or versions of something on the same machine?

Al

Elmar Hinz 08-18-2010 08:48 AM

You too? youtoo!
 
2010/8/18 Florian CROUZAT <gentoo@floriancrouzat.net>:
>
> On 18 août 2010, at 01:22, Gibson, John wrote:
>
>> He wants to have a single prefix, or more realistically, a collection of prefixes for different platforms built from one platform with a single command. *i.e. On my Mac I'd have several different prefixes, for brevity say:
>

> Oh, okay, that was hard to guess from *"youtoo --prefix /home/user/gentoo/ --target gedit" , can't see the chost in there.
>

I probably should have used a more windows like syntax, to indicate
that i don't mean to reinvent emerge, but rather an installer that
installs me a basical gentoo environemnt on any platform.

It's not that I am frightend of sources. I simply need that as a
prerequest for the tool a am working on.

For sure I could code that into my tool itself. But the unix way is to
separate different tasks into different tools and than let them work
together.

Al


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