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Old 05-29-2008, 06:48 PM
scm in seattle
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

I have been using F8 for a while now and simply put it was the only distro that supported my laptop (fairly) well.

Today I accepted what appeared to be 'typical' updates. The size of the update concerned me slightly (500Mb) but turned to horror when it finished and I rebooted.

My useful KDE3 system has been replaced by KDE4! Not only that but X won't start because the previously installed Theme cannot be found. Oh and a minor issue - my net card no longer works.

I'd like to point out that KDE4, by it's own authors is not intended to be for mainstream use:

http://en.opensuse.org/KDE4

"KDE 4.0 is only expected to be used by early adopters, not every KDE 3.5 user (and IMHO KDE 4.0 shouldn't be pushed onto other user types like planned for Kubuntu ShipIt [btw said to have only 6 months support for its packages])."

But pushed (more like shoved) I was and I now have a completely unusable, broken system that I have reply upon daily for
development. Everyone is jumping on the KDE4 band-wagon but the wagon is missing three wheels. This is a complete disaster of a decision to make KDE4 the default install and sets-back Linux for anyone but the 'bleeders'.

KDE4 should NEVER be installed over KDE without explicit permission of the user. Ever. Period.




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Old 05-29-2008, 07:05 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

scm in seattle wrote:

> I have been using F8 for a while now and simply put it was the only distro
> that supported my laptop (fairly) well.
>
> Today I accepted what appeared to be 'typical' updates. The size of the
> update concerned me slightly (500Mb) but turned to horror when it finished
> and I rebooted.
>
> My useful KDE3 system has been replaced by KDE4! Not only that but X won't
> start because the previously installed Theme cannot be found. Oh and a
> minor issue - my net card no longer works.
>
> I'd like to point out that KDE4, by it's own authors is not intended to be
> for mainstream use:
>
> http://en.opensuse.org/KDE4

opensuse != upstream kde

> "KDE 4.0 is only expected to be used by early adopters, not every KDE 3.5
> user...

True, fedora is all about innovation and early adoption of technologies, and
isn't for everyone.

> KDE4 should NEVER be installed over KDE without explicit permission of the
> user. Ever. Period.

Good, keep using your tried-and-true KDE-3.5 on F8.
Was getting KDE4 on F9 a surprise? I thought we had done a pretty good job
of shouting from the rooftops.

-- rex

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Old 05-29-2008, 07:07 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

scm in seattle wrote:

> I have been using F8 for a while now and simply put it was the only distro
> that supported my laptop (fairly) well.
>
> Today I accepted what appeared to be 'typical' updates. The size of the
> update concerned me slightly (500Mb) but turned to horror when it finished
> and I rebooted.
>
> My useful KDE3 system has been replaced by KDE4!

Oops, wait you say you're still on F8?
OK, that *is* a problem. See, there is no kde4 desktop provided for F8. We
definitely would *not* do that.

My guess is that you inadvertantly enabled rawhide/development repo in your
yum config. ?? what does
$ yum repolist
say?

-- Rex

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Old 05-29-2008, 07:12 PM
Todd Zullinger
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

scm in seattle wrote:
> I have been using F8 for a while now and simply put it was the only
> distro that supported my laptop (fairly) well.
>
> Today I accepted what appeared to be 'typical' updates. The size of
> the update concerned me slightly (500Mb) but turned to horror when
> it finished and I rebooted.

KDE4 is not in F8 updates. So you didn't perform any sort of typical
update. You upgraded your install to F9. And if you did that, you'd
have checked the release notes to see that KDE 4 replaces KDE 3 in F9.

> KDE4 should NEVER be installed over KDE without explicit permission
> of the user. Ever. Period.

It's not. Calm down. If you upgrade to a release that includes KDE 4
by default, you don't get to act shocked that it has -- GASP! -- KDE
4.

--
Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Politicians are interested in people. Not that this is always a
virtue. Fleas are interested in dogs.
-- P.J. O'Rourke

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Old 05-29-2008, 07:27 PM
Anne Wilson
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

On Thursday 29 May 2008 20:07:32 Rex Dieter wrote:
> scm in seattle wrote:
> > I have been using F8 for a while now and simply put it was the only
> > distro that supported my laptop (fairly) well.
> >
> > Today I accepted what appeared to be 'typical' updates. The size of the
> > update concerned me slightly (500Mb) but turned to horror when it
> > finished and I rebooted.
> >
> > My useful KDE3 system has been replaced by KDE4!
>
> Oops, wait you say you're still on F8?
> OK, that *is* a problem. See, there is no kde4 desktop provided for F8.
> We definitely would *not* do that.
>
> My guess is that you inadvertantly enabled rawhide/development repo in your
> yum config. ?? what does
> $ yum repolist
> say?
>
His subject says 'F8 -> F9' so presumably he did an upgrade without reading
the release notes.

Anne
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:17 PM
scm in seattle
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

No I did not read the release notes because...* I was NOT intending to upgrade to F9!* I did accept the updates that the update notifier prompted for me to accept.

Perhaps I have mistakenly checked rawhide/dev repo... which is the only thing that can possibly make sense.

Thanks to Rex for kindly pointing that out.

Anne Wilson <cannewilson@googlemail.com> wrote: On Thursday 29 May 2008 20:07:32 Rex Dieter wrote:
> scm in seattle wrote:
> > I have been using F8 for a while now and simply put it was the only
> > distro that supported my laptop (fairly) well.
> >
> > Today I accepted what appeared to be 'typical' updates. The size of the
> > update concerned me slightly (500Mb) but turned to horror when it
> > finished and I rebooted.
> >
>
> My useful KDE3 system has been replaced by KDE4!
>
> Oops, wait you say you're still on F8?
> OK, that *is* a problem. See, there is no kde4 desktop provided for F8.
> We definitely would *not* do that.
>
> My guess is that you inadvertantly enabled rawhide/development repo in your
> yum config. ?? what does
> $ yum repolist
> say?
>
His subject says 'F8 -> F9' so presumably he did an upgrade without reading
the release notes.

Anne
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Old 05-29-2008, 08:27 PM
scm in seattle
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

Hi Rex,

yum repolist shows: Fedora - Rawhide...

My own doing surely while looking for some other package I required. I guess it's time to rebuild the installation, unless you have any other suggestions on how to recover this mess. Thanks for your help.

Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote: scm in seattle wrote:

Oops, wait you say you're still on F8?
OK, that *is* a problem. See, there is no kde4 desktop provided for F8. We
definitely would *not* do that.

My guess is that you inadvertantly enabled rawhide/development repo in your
yum config. ?? what does
$ yum repolist
say?




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Old 05-29-2008, 08:32 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

2008/5/29 scm in seattle <scmsea@yahoo.com>:
> No I did not read the release notes because... I was NOT intending to
> upgrade to F9! I did accept the updates that the update notifier prompted
> for me to accept.

Fedora may have bugs, but it doesn't auto update to a different version.

> Perhaps I have mistakenly checked rawhide/dev repo... which is the only
> thing that can possibly make sense.

If that is the problem, then there's no easy way back.

--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )

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Old 05-29-2008, 10:58 PM
Sam Varshavchik
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

scm in seattle writes:


Hi Rex,

yum repolist shows: Fedora - Rawhide...

My own doing surely while looking for some other package I required. I
guess it's time to rebuild the installation, unless you have any other
suggestions on how to recover this mess. Thanks for your help.


Well, it should be possible to recover, but it is not going to be easy.

/var/log/yum.log should have a nice hairball that lists all the packages
that got upgraded. You'll need to take that list, grab the most recent
versions of these packages from F8 updates, or F8 base, then shove them in
with rpm -U --oldpackage.


This will work only if two conditions are met:

1) The KDE packages have not been refactored: that is a package being
replaced or merged by another package of the same name. If so, you'll need
to backtrack and identify the previous name of the corresponding package,
and apply the necessary rpm voodoo to force-uninstall the new package, and
install the old one as part of the upgrade.


2) That KDE 4 did not obliterate your old KDE 3 configuration settings, and
when you go back KDE won't go bonkers because of unrecognized configuration
settings. If so, you'll need to trawl through your home directory and nuke
all the hidden dot-directories that store KDE configuration. That should
reset KDE to its default configuration settings, and you'll need to manually
apply restore what you had configured before.


I'm sure that this is possible and a reinstall is not necessary, but it
won't be easy. Consider it a learning experience. Recovering from a botched
upgrade is a valuable skill, that you will eventually have to put to use.


On one of my laptops, an upgrade from F8 to F9 crapped about at about a 90%
mark with some obnoxious Anaconda traceback. The option to save the
traceback for diagnostics was utterly useless. It harassed me for a network
host+port, and login/password info, without divulging even a shred of a clue
as to what exactly it wanted: an HTTP server address, with authorization
information, ssh login parameters, ftp login parameters, or whatever. After
giving up an attempt to save some diagnostics for a subsequent Bugzilla
entry, I rebooted and restarted the F9 installer.


Restarting the upgrade in F9's installer didn't do anything. It did not want
to upgrade anything.


Rebooting into F9 revealed an utterly barfed system. X couldn't start, and
complained about some missing module. A royal mess. Eventually, I concluded
that about 100 packages, out of 1000+ were completely uninstalled. Gone. No
trace of them in the rpm database, and the files were uninstalled. Swell.
Fortunately I had a custom daily cron job that saved the list of installed
packages, from that I slapped together a script to identify the list of
missing packages, then assemble the list of files on the F9 DVD that I
needed to install. That fixed it.


So, this is an excellent opportunity for you to learn how to recover a
bolloxed upgrade job, yourself. Good luck.


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Old 05-30-2008, 05:50 AM
Kevin Kofler
 
Default F8 -> F9 horror

scm in seattle <scmsea <at> yahoo.com> writes:
> yum repolist shows: Fedora - Rawhide...

Then that must be it. Note that Rawhide is actually F10 pre-alpha, not F9, so
no wonder it's buggy (but it has KDE 4.1 beta 1, so your complaints about 4.0
are missing the point).

Kevin Kofler

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