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Old 05-23-2008, 08:01 PM
Beartooth Sciurivore
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

I had downloaded and burned another DVD, which I thought I would
try. I put it into a machine which dual-boots, either to one hard drive
with F8 or rarely to the other, which has XP.

I ran the test on the disk, and all seemed well. The install
began, and then suddenly the whole screen went white, and stayed that
way. When at last I tried to goose it, it wouldn't react to anything, not
even the power switch held down. I finally pulled the plug.

It still boots to XP all right. It offers to boot to F8, the
default, but I didn't check that; maybe I should.

So I put in the DVD from which I had successfully gotten F9 onto
three machines, and told XP to reboot.

It has done the same thing -- gone through the first few steps,
only to sit there with a blank white screen.

The monitor is new, a HP w2207h 1680x1050; but the other two PCs
manage with it, both behind a KVM switch and directly connected. And the
dual-boot machine is much the newest!

What could be doing this, and how do I fix it??

--
Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
C5; D4; F8; P3; U7.10; Alpine 1.10, Pan 0.132; Privoxy 3
Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.


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Old 05-25-2008, 01:27 PM
Francis Earl
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

This is a known issue with ATI/Nvidia cards currently. If you have
either, please stick to Fedora 8 for the time being, thank you.

On Fri, 2008-05-23 at 20:01 +0000, Beartooth Sciurivore wrote:
> I had downloaded and burned another DVD, which I thought I would
> try. I put it into a machine which dual-boots, either to one hard drive
> with F8 or rarely to the other, which has XP.
>
> I ran the test on the disk, and all seemed well. The install
> began, and then suddenly the whole screen went white, and stayed that
> way. When at last I tried to goose it, it wouldn't react to anything, not
> even the power switch held down. I finally pulled the plug.
>
> It still boots to XP all right. It offers to boot to F8, the
> default, but I didn't check that; maybe I should.
>
> So I put in the DVD from which I had successfully gotten F9 onto
> three machines, and told XP to reboot.
>
> It has done the same thing -- gone through the first few steps,
> only to sit there with a blank white screen.
>
> The monitor is new, a HP w2207h 1680x1050; but the other two PCs
> manage with it, both behind a KVM switch and directly connected. And the
> dual-boot machine is much the newest!
>
> What could be doing this, and how do I fix it??
>
> --
> Beartooth Staffwright, Not Quite Clueless Power User
> C5; D4; F8; P3; U7.10; Alpine 1.10, Pan 0.132; Privoxy 3
> Remember I know little (precious little!) of where up is.
>
>

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Old 05-25-2008, 02:25 PM
Beartooth
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

> On Fri, 2008-05-23 at 20:01 +0000, Beartooth Sciurivore wrote:

[...]
>> What could be doing this, and how do I fix it??

On Sun, 25 May 2008 06:27:44 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:

> This is a known issue with ATI/Nvidia cards currently. If you have
> either, please stick to Fedora 8 for the time being, thank you.

Well, in the meanwhile I've had yet another try. That machine now
offers to boot to XP (which works) or to F9, only. It does boot to F9,
and my home folder seems to be there; but it cant start X.

Unfortunately, I've been too assiduous about housecleaning with
Pan, deleting threads I thought surely irrelevant -- including, since I
had installed F9 on three machines successfully, complete with working X
-- at least one about not being able to start X. I'll look through the
Gmane version of this list with the three fully functioning machines, in
hope (pretty faint hope) of finding one where I haven't lost that thread
yet.

Assuming that fails, leaving me with my present severely crippled
install, rather than sticking to F8, I would have to try to "upgrade"
from F9 with my F8 respin DVD from last December. Is that a good idea? Or
an impossibility? Or something feasible but acrawl or honeycombed with
gotchas?

I did once downgrade a machine that way -- from FC1 back to RH9,
iirc -- because of monitor problems; and the new HP w2207h, which I
replaced my dead monitor with, may well be involved here ...


--
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
Fedora 8 & 9; Alpine 1.10, Pan 0.132; Privoxy 3.0.6;
Dillo 0.8.6, Galeon 2.0.3, Epiphany 2.20, Opera 9.27, Firefox 2.0
Remember I know little (precious little!) of what I am talking about.

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Old 05-25-2008, 08:13 PM
Beartooth
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

On Sun, 25 May 2008 14:25:15 +0000, I Beartooth wrote:

> On Sun, 25 May 2008 06:27:44 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
>
>> This is a known issue with ATI/Nvidia cards currently. If you have
>> either, please stick to Fedora 8 for the time being, thank you.
[...]
> ... leaving me with my present severely crippled
> install, rather than sticking to F8, I would have to try to "upgrade"
> from F9 with my F8 respin DVD from last December. Is that a good idea?
> Or an impossibility? Or something feasible but acrawl or honeycombed
> with gotchas?
[...]

Having heard no more, I've been trying to downgrade. That, too,
fails, both normally and in text mode,with an error message.

The message cites a long string of gibberish, apparently of the
form shown in Amadeus W.M's thread "what kind of /etc/fstab is this?"
beginning May 24th. It follows the gibberish with a flat statement saying
"Devices in /etc/fstab should be specified by label, not by device name."

Then it gives no other choice but to exit the installer.

Some of the replies in the fstab thread praise these lines of
gibberish, saying for instance, "either a label or uuid is the safe way
to refer to the partition in fstab. For the installer, uuid is
better ..."

Apparently Anaconda needs to have that hammered into its skull,
since it knows what they are and dismisses them so cavalierly. (Maybe
that's the bug in Anaconda??)

Consequence : those of us with F9 but no GUI are, apparently, up
the creek. We can't get X to work, and we can't downgrade back to F8.


--
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
Fedora 8 & 9; Alpine 1.10, Pan 0.132; Privoxy 3.0.6;
Dillo 0.8.6, Galeon 2.0.3, Epiphany 2.20, Opera 9.27, Firefox 2.0
Remember I know precious little of what I am talking about.

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Old 05-25-2008, 08:28 PM
Sam Varshavchik
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

Beartooth writes:

Consequence : those of us with F9 but no GUI are, apparently, up
the creek. We can't get X to work, and we can't downgrade back to F8.


You can never downgrade to an earlier release. That has never been the case,
and will never be the case, at least not until rpm is replaced by something
else.


You are at Nvidia's mercy, to release a driver that's compatible with F9.
Perhaps it's now clear why non-free binary blobs are a bad idea.



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Old 05-25-2008, 08:54 PM
Beartooth
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

On Sun, 25 May 2008 16:28:21 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:

> Beartooth writes:
>
>> Consequence : those of us with F9 but no GUI are, apparently, up
>> the creek. We can't get X to work, and we can't downgrade back to F8.
>
> You can never downgrade to an earlier release. That has never been the
> case, and will never be the case, at least not until rpm is replaced by
> something else.
>
> You are at Nvidia's mercy, to release a driver that's compatible with
> F9. Perhaps it's now clear why non-free binary blobs are a bad idea.

If that's the real underlying problem; I don't know what sort of
card I have, nor how to tell without the GUI. (I have neither the savvy
nor the adroitness, nor yet the eyesight, to build a machine myself; what
I do have is an electronic friend who has those things, who also runs
Fedora, and who shares my attitudes. I take it for granted that anything
he builds will be far better than I'd've managed.)

For aught I know, it could be HP whose mercy I'm at -- the
present monitor, replacing one that died suddenly, seems to be near state
of the art: all my machines were managing (with Fedora and Ubuntu, not
with CentOS) to use it last week; but none of them actually took
advantage of its full size.

I suppose, the time I did in fact downgrade, I must then have
done a fresh install of RH9 over the top of FC1. I would do that now with
F9 and F8, if I could recover a certain few files from the half-install.

But neither ssh nor scp works against it, getting "no route to
host," and my router doesn't see it, either.

I did try "service denyhosts stop" and "service network start" --
but only the former succeeded.

Nor do I have the faintest inkling how to burn those files to CDs
or DVDs without K3B nor Brasero.

So I guess I just shut that machine down, and get by on backup
while I wait for the Anaconda bug to be fixed a/o an nvidia driver to
appear a/o an HP driver ....

--
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
Fedora 8 & 9; Alpine 1.10, Pan 0.132; Privoxy 3.0.6;
Dillo 0.8.6, Galeon 2.0.3, Epiphany 2.20, Opera 9.27, Firefox 2.0
Remember I know precious little of what I am talking about.

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Old 05-25-2008, 10:41 PM
Matthew Saltzman
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 16:28 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> Beartooth writes:
>
> > Consequence : those of us with F9 but no GUI are, apparently, up
> > the creek. We can't get X to work, and we can't downgrade back to F8.
>
> You can never downgrade to an earlier release. That has never been the case,
> and will never be the case, at least not until rpm is replaced by something
> else.
>
> You are at Nvidia's mercy, to release a driver that's compatible with F9.
> Perhaps it's now clear why non-free binary blobs are a bad idea.

If the nv driver also doesn't work (I didn't see the beginning of this
thread, but Beartooth does say above "F9 but no GUI"), then he's also at
the mercy of the open-source kernel driver writers. They have not
necessarily been any faster than nVidia at fixing broken drivers or
supporting new cards.

Beartooth: Have you tried the vesa driver? It worked with my nVidia
laptop card when nothing else would (when F8 was released), except that
it wouldn't turn off the backlight. I haven't seen any progress on that
bug (#351661) since I filed it last October.

--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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Old 05-26-2008, 03:12 PM
Beartooth
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

On Sun, 25 May 2008 18:41:29 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:

> On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 16:28 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
>> Beartooth writes:
>>
>> > Consequence : those of us with F9 but no GUI are, apparently, up
>> > the creek. We can't get X to work, and we can't downgrade back to F8.
>>
>> You can never downgrade to an earlier release. That has never been the
>> case, and will never be the case, at least not until rpm is replaced by
>> something else.
>>
>> You are at Nvidia's mercy, to release a driver that's compatible with
>> F9. Perhaps it's now clear why non-free binary blobs are a bad idea.
>
> If the nv driver also doesn't work (I didn't see the beginning of this
> thread, but Beartooth does say above "F9 but no GUI"), then he's also at
> the mercy of the open-source kernel driver writers. They have not
> necessarily been any faster than nVidia at fixing broken drivers or
> supporting new cards.
>
> Beartooth: Have you tried the vesa driver? It worked with my nVidia
> laptop card when nothing else would (when F8 was released), except that
> it wouldn't turn off the backlight. I haven't seen any progress on that
> bug (#351661) since I filed it last October.

Vesa driver? I've seen the word during boot-ups on at least one
machine; but since it means nothing to me, I don't even recall which
machine. I'll be glad to try that or anything else I can; how do I do it?

Please, everyone, remember also that it may well be the brand-new
monitor, which almost certainly did not yet exist when any of my machines
were assembled, much less when the components in them were manufactured.
I had been running an almost square LCD (19" I think; maybe more), and
one morning it had decided it was a doornail.

In fact, oddly enough, the machine I had feared might not be able
to handle this monitor (and was prepared to sacrifice, since square
monitors seem to be disappearing quickly from electronic fashion) is
doing just fine -- with a 1280x1024 setting and a stretched display, but
very usably; it's the newest one, whose compatibility I took for granted,
that can't seem to run X.

Also, please remember that it was F9 itself that told me the
"unhandled exception" which aborted several installs was most probably a
bug in Anaconda.

So at least three hypothetical possibilities are tenable at this
point, even plausible, afaik; I'll be glad to try anything against any of
them, and report results.

--
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
Fedora 8 & 9; Alpine 1.10, Pan 0.132; Privoxy 3.0.6;
Dillo 0.8.6, Galeon 2.0.3, Epiphany 2.20, Opera 9.27, Firefox 2 & 3
Remember I know little (precious little!) of what I am talking about.

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Old 05-26-2008, 05:36 PM
Matthew Saltzman
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

On Mon, 2008-05-26 at 15:12 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
> On Sun, 25 May 2008 18:41:29 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 16:28 -0400, Sam Varshavchik wrote:
> >> Beartooth writes:
> >>
> >> > Consequence : those of us with F9 but no GUI are, apparently, up
> >> > the creek. We can't get X to work, and we can't downgrade back to F8.
> >>
> >> You can never downgrade to an earlier release. That has never been the
> >> case, and will never be the case, at least not until rpm is replaced by
> >> something else.
> >>
> >> You are at Nvidia's mercy, to release a driver that's compatible with
> >> F9. Perhaps it's now clear why non-free binary blobs are a bad idea.
> >
> > If the nv driver also doesn't work (I didn't see the beginning of this
> > thread, but Beartooth does say above "F9 but no GUI"), then he's also at
> > the mercy of the open-source kernel driver writers. They have not
> > necessarily been any faster than nVidia at fixing broken drivers or
> > supporting new cards.
> >
> > Beartooth: Have you tried the vesa driver? It worked with my nVidia
> > laptop card when nothing else would (when F8 was released), except that
> > it wouldn't turn off the backlight. I haven't seen any progress on that
> > bug (#351661) since I filed it last October.
>
> Vesa driver? I've seen the word during boot-ups on at least one
> machine; but since it means nothing to me, I don't even recall which
> machine. I'll be glad to try that or anything else I can; how do I do it?

I believe you can do this:

When you see the GRUB spash screen on boot, press a key. Select
the top kernel line of the options offered and type 'e', select
the kernel line and type 'e'. Append 'video=vesa' at the end of
the line. Type [Enter], type 'b'.

Then X should detect your video card as vesa, which is the most generic
sort of interface.

>
> Please, everyone, remember also that it may well be the brand-new
> monitor, which almost certainly did not yet exist when any of my machines
> were assembled, much less when the components in them were manufactured.
> I had been running an almost square LCD (19" I think; maybe more), and
> one morning it had decided it was a doornail.
>
> In fact, oddly enough, the machine I had feared might not be able
> to handle this monitor (and was prepared to sacrifice, since square
> monitors seem to be disappearing quickly from electronic fashion) is
> doing just fine -- with a 1280x1024 setting and a stretched display, but
> very usably; it's the newest one, whose compatibility I took for granted,
> that can't seem to run X.
>
> Also, please remember that it was F9 itself that told me the
> "unhandled exception" which aborted several installs was most probably a
> bug in Anaconda.
>
>
> So at least three hypothetical possibilities are tenable at this
> point, even plausible, afaik; I'll be glad to try anything against any of
> them, and report results.

If the machine boots, you can boot in runlevel 3 (edit the kernel line
in GRUB as above, but instead of "video=vesa" add "3". Then you'll get
a virtual console to log into. Then (as root) run

system-config-display --reconfig

and see if that helps.

>
--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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Old 05-26-2008, 07:17 PM
Beartooth
 
Default Weirdness with Fedora/XP upgrade

On Mon, 26 May 2008 13:36:37 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:

> On Mon, 2008-05-26 at 15:12 +0000, Beartooth wrote:
[....]
>> > Beartooth: Have you tried the vesa driver? It worked with my nVidia
>> > laptop card when nothing else would (when F8 was released), except
>> > that it wouldn't turn off the backlight. I haven't seen any progress
>> > on that bug (#351661) since I filed it last October.
>>
>> Vesa driver? I've seen the word during boot-ups on at least one
>> machine; but since it means nothing to me, I don't even recall which
>> machine. I'll be glad to try that or anything else I can; how do I do
>> it?
>
> I believe you can do this:
>
> When you see the GRUB splash screen on boot, press a key. >
>
> Select
> the top kernel line of the options offered and type 'e', select
> the kernel line and type 'e'. Append 'video=vesa' at the end of
> the line. Type [Enter], type 'b'.

Will do, shortly. As you can see in detail in the thread on "X
doesn't start," at the moment I have that machine actually online; I've
just scp'd all of /home/btth/* onto this one (my #2), deleting like a
madman at the same time; I want to try to get /home/btth/.*, too, if I
can, before I reboot #1.

Once that's done, I have a fallback: I can find some way to wipe
the whole Fedora hard drive without wiping the XP drive, install F8 onto
it cold, and scp the files I want back. Ahh, insurance!


> Then X should detect your video card as vesa, which is the most generic
> sort of interface.

Aha -- makes lots of sense. And I would of course prefer, vastly,
to get F9 running properly. Maybe that *can* be done. In which case, of
course, I just delete the whole gleanings folder (or burn it to DVD, file
it away, and then delete it).

> If the machine boots, you can boot in runlevel 3 (edit the kernel line
> in GRUB as above, but instead of "video=vesa" add "3".

Hmmm ... I realize edits in grub are temporary; so the
"video=vesa" won't be there, right?

> Then you'll get
> a virtual console to log into.

Id est, a simple white on black command line, right?

> Then (as root) run
>
> system-config-display --reconfig
>
> and see if that helps.

Oho! I didn't know that command had that option. Will do, with
bells on. Stay tuned.





--
Beartooth Staffwright, PhD, Neo-Redneck Linux Convert
Fedora 8 & 9; Alpine 1.10, Pan 0.132; Privoxy 3.0.6;
Dillo 0.8.6, Galeon 2.0.3, Epiphany 2.20, Opera 9.27, Firefox 2.0
Remember I know precious little of what I am talking about.

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