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-   -   Dual layer dvd burning (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-user/863-dual-layer-dvd-burning.html)

"Mark C. Allman" 11-19-2007 09:16 PM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
On Mon, 2007-11-19 at 11:55 +0100, Mike Morraye wrote:
> Ok thx.
>
> I just asked a friend who has a dual layer dvd-burner.
> it takes about 40 - 45 minutes to burn 8.4 GB of data. (on windows,
> but i guess linux can do only better ^^ )
>
> thx for the response ;)
>
>
> 2007/11/19, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com>:
> Mike Morraye wrote:
> --
> This is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday. And now you
> know why.
> > Dear List,
> >
> > I would like to buy a Dual layer burner so i can burn my
> data. ( with k3b)
> > But i read a lot about the slow burning process.
> >
> > How long would it take to burn a 8GB @ 8x speed on a dual
> layer dvd?
> >
> > Thx in advance. ( I dont like spending my money to the wrong
> stuff )
>
> About the same amount of time it would take to burn 2 4.7GB
> Single layer
> DVDs at 8x speed.
>
> I don't know what you mean about spending money on the "wrong
> stuff" but the
> thing is the more data you burn the longer it will take.
>
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Just out of curiosity, which dual layer DVD writers work well with
Fedora (F8)? I am about to buy a drive but haven't looked around for
recommendations yet.

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John Summerfield 11-19-2007 10:16 PM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
Mike Morraye wrote:

Dear List,

I would like to buy a Dual layer burner so i can burn my data. ( with k3b)
But i read a lot about the slow burning process.

How long would it take to burn a 8GB @ 8x speed on a dual layer dvd?

Thx in advance. ( I dont like spending my money to the wrong stuff )



Eh?
Are there current DVD burners that don't do dual-layer? I have some
Pioneer DVD burners that I bought because they were cheapish and weren't
the brand I don't like, and those do DL.


What bothered me last time I looked was the media price; DL media seem
to me a bit like 2.88 Mbyte floppies, expensive and rare.


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"Kevin J. Cummings" 11-19-2007 10:26 PM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
John Summerfield wrote:
> Mike Morraye wrote:
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I would like to buy a Dual layer burner so i can burn my data. ( with
>> k3b)
>> But i read a lot about the slow burning process.
>>
>> How long would it take to burn a 8GB @ 8x speed on a dual layer dvd?

As in the previous answers, DVD write time is at the same rates as
non-DL disks. And it takes twice as long to write twice as much data.

>> Thx in advance. ( I dont like spending my money to the wrong stuff )
>>
>>
> Eh?
> Are there current DVD burners that don't do dual-layer? I have some
> Pioneer DVD burners that I bought because they were cheapish and weren't
> the brand I don't like, and those do DL.

Most DVD ROM drives will *read* DL drives. But the original burners
weren't capable of *burning* DL disks. I bought 1 a year or so ago that
was DL capable (Lite-On in case anyone is interested), it cost more than
burners which were *not* capable of burning to a DL disk.

BTW, I haven't heard about a recent DL drive that *doesn't* work with
Linux. If they comply with the current ATA standards, they work.
So, if you find a drive that doesn't work with Linux, let us know about it!

> What bothered me last time I looked was the media price; DL media seem
> to me a bit like 2.88 Mbyte floppies, expensive and rare.

They exist. I bought a 25 pack. Readily available at Staples/Office
Max/Office Depot/etc. I even found some at BJs (local big box store).
Can't say I've look for them at Circuit City or Best Buy recently, and
the local CompUSA closed up shop here.

YMMV

While the drives are capable of holding 8GB of data, the filesystem is
*still* not capable of holding a file >= 2GB. This is usually not a
problem when writing video onto these drives as the VOB filesize is <
2GB anyways. When using them to write backups of large files, games
must be played to get the data to fit.

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John Summerfield 11-19-2007 11:22 PM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
Kevin J. Cummings wrote:

John Summerfield wrote:

Mike Morraye wrote:

Dear List,

I would like to buy a Dual layer burner so i can burn my data. ( with
k3b)
But i read a lot about the slow burning process.

How long would it take to burn a 8GB @ 8x speed on a dual layer dvd?


As in the previous answers, DVD write time is at the same rates as
non-DL disks. And it takes twice as long to write twice as much data.


My pioneer does DL at up to 10x, SL at up to 18x. Say four times as long.





Thx in advance. ( I dont like spending my money to the wrong stuff )



Eh?
Are there current DVD burners that don't do dual-layer? I have some
Pioneer DVD burners that I bought because they were cheapish and weren't
the brand I don't like, and those do DL.


Most DVD ROM drives will *read* DL drives. But the original burners


original != current


weren't capable of *burning* DL disks. I bought 1 a year or so ago that
was DL capable (Lite-On in case anyone is interested), it cost more than
burners which were *not* capable of burning to a DL disk.

BTW, I haven't heard about a recent DL drive that *doesn't* work with
Linux. If they comply with the current ATA standards, they work.
So, if you find a drive that doesn't work with Linux, let us know about it!


What bothered me last time I looked was the media price; DL media seem
to me a bit like 2.88 Mbyte floppies, expensive and rare.


They exist. I bought a 25 pack. Readily available at Staples/Office
Max/Office Depot/etc. I even found some at BJs (local big box store).
Can't say I've look for them at Circuit City or Best Buy recently, and
the local CompUSA closed up shop here.

YMMV

While the drives are capable of holding 8GB of data, the filesystem is
*still* not capable of holding a file >= 2GB. This is usually not a
problem when writing video onto these drives as the VOB filesize is <
2GB anyways. When using them to write backups of large files, games
must be played to get the data to fit.


That explains these, none of which is less than 2 Gbytes:-)

-rw-rw-r-- 1 4.3G Jul 28 2006
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/SUSE/SLES/SLES-10-x86-DVD1.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 4.3G Apr 12 2007
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r0-i386-DVD-3.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Sep 2 2006
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-testing-s390-binary-1.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Apr 12 2007
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r0-i386-DVD-2.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Sep 5 2006
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-testing-s390-binary-2.iso
-rw-rw-r-- 1 4.4G Sep 25 13:44
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r1-i386-DVD-1.iso
-rw-rw-r-- 1 4.4G Sep 26 06:01
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r1-i386-DVD-2.iso
-rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Apr 12 2007
/net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r0-i386-DVD-1.iso


I did burn a set of Debian disks, and I have installed from the ISO.

Actually, one can burn any kind of file to DVD. Even a tarball.





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John

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"Kevin J. Cummings" 11-19-2007 11:58 PM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
John Summerfield wrote:

>> While the drives are capable of holding 8GB of data, the filesystem is
>> *still* not capable of holding a file >= 2GB. This is usually not a
>> problem when writing video onto these drives as the VOB filesize is <
>> 2GB anyways. When using them to write backups of large files, games
>> must be played to get the data to fit.
>
> That explains these, none of which is less than 2 Gbytes:-)
>
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 4.3G Jul 28 2006
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/SUSE/SLES/SLES-10-x86-DVD1.iso
> -rw-r--r-- 1 4.3G Apr 12 2007
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r0-i386-DVD-3.iso
> -rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Sep 2 2006
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-testing-s390-binary-1.iso
> -rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Apr 12 2007
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r0-i386-DVD-2.iso
> -rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Sep 5 2006
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-testing-s390-binary-2.iso
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 4.4G Sep 25 13:44
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r1-i386-DVD-1.iso
> -rw-rw-r-- 1 4.4G Sep 26 06:01h
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r1-i386-DVD-2.iso
> -rw-r--r-- 1 4.4G Apr 12 2007
> /net/ns/var/local/mirrors/linux/debian-cd/debian-40r0-i386-DVD-1.iso

Which is *NOT* what I said. The files in a DVD filesystem cannot be
larger than 2GB (and cannot be equal to 2GB from what I can tell
either). An ISO image is a copy of a DVD filesystem. It, by itself,
represents an image of the DVD and can certainly be larger than 2GB.
Generating one can be an adventure, but 1) it is possible, just not
well documented, 2) they exist. You show examples of them above.

How many of the files *inside* those ISO images are >= 2GB in size?

> I did burn a set of Debian disks, and I have installed from the ISO.

So have I (OK, Fedora & Knoppix disks, not Debian).

> Actually, one can burn any kind of file to DVD. Even a tarball.

Not tarballs >= 2GB. I've had to use "split" to reduce them to
something < 2GB in size and write the individual split files into an ISO
image that can then be burned. Which means I have to use "cat" to
re-read them back into the original large file when I want to access it.
a real PITA.

--
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Tony Nelson 11-20-2007 01:32 AM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
At 6:26 PM -0500 11/19/07, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
...
>While the drives are capable of holding 8GB of data, the filesystem is
>*still* not capable of holding a file >= 2GB. This is usually not a
>problem when writing video onto these drives as the VOB filesize is <
>2GB anyways. When using them to write backups of large files, games
>must be played to get the data to fit.

Why use a filesystem? I just put a tar archive directly on the media.
Growisofs doesn't care what file you burn.
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"Kevin J. Cummings" 11-20-2007 01:43 AM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
Tony Nelson wrote:
> At 6:26 PM -0500 11/19/07, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> ...
>> While the drives are capable of holding 8GB of data, the filesystem is
>> *still* not capable of holding a file >= 2GB. This is usually not a
>> problem when writing video onto these drives as the VOB filesize is <
>> 2GB anyways. When using them to write backups of large files, games
>> must be played to get the data to fit.
>
> Why use a filesystem? I just put a tar archive directly on the media.
> Growisofs doesn't care what file you burn.

Uh, yes, it does. It creates an ISO fs containing the file(s) you want
burnt, and the ISO fs is where the 2GB filesize limit is.

Years ago, I used to write TAR files directly to raw media (floppies)
and read them back on another (compatible) machine. It works great.

With the advent of CDs and DVDs, its much harder to write directly to
the blank disks. You pretty much have to use something like growisofs
or cdrecord to do it, and they want to create ISO (or UDF) filesystems
which have limitation on what they will contain.

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John Summerfield 11-20-2007 02:09 AM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
Kevin J. Cummings wrote:

John Summerfield wrote:





Which is *NOT* what I said. The files in a DVD filesystem cannot be



I misunderstood your plain english.




Actually, one can burn any kind of file to DVD. Even a tarball.


Not tarballs >= 2GB. I've had to use "split" to reduce them to
something < 2GB in size and write the individual split files into an ISO
image that can then be burned. Which means I have to use "cat" to
re-read them back into the original large file when I want to access it.
a real PITA.

This should work, I accudently did something akin to that with a CD some
years ago.


growisofs -Z /dev/hdc=big.tar

as will burning an ext2 filesystem in a file.




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John Summerfield 11-20-2007 02:12 AM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
Kevin J. Cummings wrote:

Tony Nelson wrote:

At 6:26 PM -0500 11/19/07, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
...

While the drives are capable of holding 8GB of data, the filesystem is
*still* not capable of holding a file >= 2GB. This is usually not a
problem when writing video onto these drives as the VOB filesize is <
2GB anyways. When using them to write backups of large files, games
must be played to get the data to fit.

Why use a filesystem? I just put a tar archive directly on the media.
Growisofs doesn't care what file you burn.


Uh, yes, it does. It creates an ISO fs containing the file(s) you want
burnt, and the ISO fs is where the 2GB filesize limit is.


It doesn't insist on it, see the man page:
To use growisofs to write a pre-mastered ISO-image to a DVD:

growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd=image.iso





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Cheers
John

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"Kevin J. Cummings" 11-20-2007 02:14 AM

Dual layer dvd burning
 
John Summerfield wrote:
> Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
>> John Summerfield wrote:
>>
>
>>
>> Which is *NOT* what I said. The files in a DVD filesystem cannot be
>>
>
> I misunderstood your plain english.
>
>>
>>> Actually, one can burn any kind of file to DVD. Even a tarball.
>>
>> Not tarballs >= 2GB. I've had to use "split" to reduce them to
>> something < 2GB in size and write the individual split files into an ISO
>> image that can then be burned. Which means I have to use "cat" to
>> re-read them back into the original large file when I want to access it.
>> a real PITA.
>>
> This should work, I accudently did something akin to that with a CD some
> years ago.
>
> growisofs -Z /dev/hdc=big.tar

Last time I tried it, I got an error from mkisofs complaining about the
file being bigger than 2GB. Has growisofs changed to not use mkisofs?
My research into the ISO filesystem showed that the filesize is a 32 bit
field in the filesystem data structures. Has the system been revisioned
to now work?

> as will burning an ext2 filesystem in a file.

Never tried that. But I routinely keep large ISO images on my hard
drives. Never tried burning an non-iso fs to a CD/DVD.

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