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Old 04-22-2008, 07:43 PM
Robin Laing
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

I came across this article and as a Fedora user at home and work, I
think this is important to know.


A few weeks ago, there was a discussion about Ubuntu on this list and I
feel that this is part of that discussion.


----Article link----

The Biggest Blunder: Or why Red Hat and Novell just left the door wide
open to Ubuntu

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102011/index.html

In recent announcements both Red Hat and Novell made it pretty clear
that their foray onto the desktop would be delayed quite a bit longer.
What they do not know is that they just left the door wide open for
Ubuntu to conquer the desktop and the server space.

----/Article link-----


Basically, both Novell and RedHat are backing away from pushing Linux to
the desktop. But Ubuntu is not backing away.


As a Fedora user, I see this as an issue. At home I need games and the
applications that my family use. To date I have not had issues with
Fedora up to 7. When I updated my machines at home, there were
applications that I couldn't get for F8 so I installed F7. I have not
checked to see if these are available for F8 at present. But they were
available for the latest release of Ubuntu.


I am interested in others views on this.

--
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Old 04-22-2008, 08:02 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Robin Laing
<Robin.Laing@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
> I came across this article and as a Fedora user at home and work, I think
> this is important to know.
>
> A few weeks ago, there was a discussion about Ubuntu on this list and I
> feel that this is part of that discussion.
>
> ----Article link----
>
> The Biggest Blunder: Or why Red Hat and Novell just left the door wide open
> to Ubuntu
> http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102011/index.html
>
> In recent announcements both Red Hat and Novell made it pretty clear that
> their foray onto the desktop would be delayed quite a bit longer. What they
> do not know is that they just left the door wide open for Ubuntu to conquer
> the desktop and the server space.
> ----/Article link-----
>
>
> Basically, both Novell and RedHat are backing away from pushing Linux to
> the desktop. But Ubuntu is not backing away.
>
> As a Fedora user, I see this as an issue. At home I need games and the
> applications that my family use. To date I have not had issues with Fedora
> up to 7. When I updated my machines at home, there were applications that I
> couldn't get for F8 so I installed F7. I have not checked to see if these
> are available for F8 at present. But they were available for the latest
> release of Ubuntu.
>
> I am interested in others views on this.


Do what you feel is best. I have some qualms with how Ubuntu runs
their distro, but I doubt they are shared by many. By all indications,
Ubuntu is a better desktop distribution than Fedora.

I applaud RedHat for their focus, and would like to list some of the
reasons that I use Fedora and not Ubuntu

* I started linux with RedHat, they made a lot possible for me
* I like RedHat as a company
* I like Fedora as a community
* I like the idea of pure OSS software, even though i do install
Flash, Nvidia drivers etc
* I believe a lot of work gets done in Fedora, although sometimes it
seems like there is no specific objective in mind
* I feel that there are far more jerks/iditos/annoyances in the
Ubuntu community than i would prefer to deal
* Fedora works for me

--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )

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Old 04-22-2008, 08:02 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Robin Laing
<Robin.Laing@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
> I came across this article and as a Fedora user at home and work, I think
> this is important to know.
>
> A few weeks ago, there was a discussion about Ubuntu on this list and I
> feel that this is part of that discussion.
>
> ----Article link----
>
> The Biggest Blunder: Or why Red Hat and Novell just left the door wide open
> to Ubuntu
> http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102011/index.html
>
> In recent announcements both Red Hat and Novell made it pretty clear that
> their foray onto the desktop would be delayed quite a bit longer. What they
> do not know is that they just left the door wide open for Ubuntu to conquer
> the desktop and the server space.
> ----/Article link-----
>
>
> Basically, both Novell and RedHat are backing away from pushing Linux to
> the desktop. But Ubuntu is not backing away.
>
> As a Fedora user, I see this as an issue. At home I need games and the
> applications that my family use. To date I have not had issues with Fedora
> up to 7. When I updated my machines at home, there were applications that I
> couldn't get for F8 so I installed F7. I have not checked to see if these
> are available for F8 at present. But they were available for the latest
> release of Ubuntu.
>
> I am interested in others views on this.


By the way, this article has little to do with Fedora itself.

--
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( www.pembo13.com )

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Old 04-22-2008, 08:05 PM
Francis Earl
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

That article ENTIRELY got it wrong. All RedHat said was they won't be
pushing Linux on the consumer desktop for some time. They make their
money from servers, and they are a company, so it's not in their best
interest to have a product they aren't profiting from.

They will continue to have Red Hat Enterprise Desktop as a product for
corporations, but no one is really making many right now trying to put
Linux on consumer desktops.

In the mean time, Red Hat and Novell are both financing most of the work
done on Gnome, Red Hat continues to finance the hosting for gnome.org
etc etc... so they are continuing to better the consumer desktop until a
time comes when they consider it a profitable undertaking.

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 13:43 -0600, Robin Laing wrote:
> I came across this article and as a Fedora user at home and work, I
> think this is important to know.
>
> A few weeks ago, there was a discussion about Ubuntu on this list and I
> feel that this is part of that discussion.
>
> ----Article link----
>
> The Biggest Blunder: Or why Red Hat and Novell just left the door wide
> open to Ubuntu
> http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102011/index.html
>
> In recent announcements both Red Hat and Novell made it pretty clear
> that their foray onto the desktop would be delayed quite a bit longer.
> What they do not know is that they just left the door wide open for
> Ubuntu to conquer the desktop and the server space.
> ----/Article link-----
>
>
> Basically, both Novell and RedHat are backing away from pushing Linux to
> the desktop. But Ubuntu is not backing away.
>
> As a Fedora user, I see this as an issue. At home I need games and the
> applications that my family use. To date I have not had issues with
> Fedora up to 7. When I updated my machines at home, there were
> applications that I couldn't get for F8 so I installed F7. I have not
> checked to see if these are available for F8 at present. But they were
> available for the latest release of Ubuntu.
>
> I am interested in others views on this.
>
> --
> Robin Laing
>

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Old 04-22-2008, 09:06 PM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 15:02 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Robin Laing
> <Robin.Laing@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
> > I came across this article and as a Fedora user at home and work, I think
> > this is important to know.
> >
> > A few weeks ago, there was a discussion about Ubuntu on this list and I
> > feel that this is part of that discussion.
> >
> > ----Article link----
> >
> > The Biggest Blunder: Or why Red Hat and Novell just left the door wide open
> > to Ubuntu
> > http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102011/index.html
> >
> > In recent announcements both Red Hat and Novell made it pretty clear that
> > their foray onto the desktop would be delayed quite a bit longer. What they
> > do not know is that they just left the door wide open for Ubuntu to conquer
> > the desktop and the server space.
> > ----/Article link-----
> >
> >
> > Basically, both Novell and RedHat are backing away from pushing Linux to
> > the desktop. But Ubuntu is not backing away.
> >
> > As a Fedora user, I see this as an issue. At home I need games and the
> > applications that my family use. To date I have not had issues with Fedora
> > up to 7. When I updated my machines at home, there were applications that I
> > couldn't get for F8 so I installed F7. I have not checked to see if these
> > are available for F8 at present. But they were available for the latest
> > release of Ubuntu.
> >
> > I am interested in others views on this.
>
>
> Do what you feel is best. I have some qualms with how Ubuntu runs
> their distro, but I doubt they are shared by many. By all indications,
> Ubuntu is a better desktop distribution than Fedora.
>
> I applaud RedHat for their focus, and would like to list some of the
> reasons that I use Fedora and not Ubuntu
>
> * I started linux with RedHat, they made a lot possible for me
> * I like RedHat as a company
> * I like Fedora as a community
> * I like the idea of pure OSS software, even though i do install
> Flash, Nvidia drivers etc
> * I believe a lot of work gets done in Fedora, although sometimes it
> seems like there is no specific objective in mind
> * I feel that there are far more jerks/iditos/annoyances in the
> Ubuntu community than i would prefer to deal
> * Fedora works for me
I did not get into this earlier. The only superiority Ubuntu has for the
naive user is that you can upgrade between versions seamlessly and
automatically. But after updating you are pretty assured to be running
an older version of key software than the latest Fedora offering.
>
--
================================================== =====================
Epperson's law: When a man says it's a silly, childish game, it's
probably something his wife can beat him at.
================================================== =====================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net

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Old 04-22-2008, 09:29 PM
Francis Earl
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

The only real benefits of Ubuntu are proprietary drivers by default, and
easier access to patent encumbered codecs... catering to users so much
is why Ubuntu is so popular... no other reason.

I just hope Ubuntu doesn't take off so much that such decisions comes
back to bite Mark Shuttleworth in the butt.

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 16:06 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 15:02 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 2:43 PM, Robin Laing
> > <Robin.Laing@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
> > > I came across this article and as a Fedora user at home and work, I think
> > > this is important to know.
> > >
> > > A few weeks ago, there was a discussion about Ubuntu on this list and I
> > > feel that this is part of that discussion.
> > >
> > > ----Article link----
> > >
> > > The Biggest Blunder: Or why Red Hat and Novell just left the door wide open
> > > to Ubuntu
> > > http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102011/index.html
> > >
> > > In recent announcements both Red Hat and Novell made it pretty clear that
> > > their foray onto the desktop would be delayed quite a bit longer. What they
> > > do not know is that they just left the door wide open for Ubuntu to conquer
> > > the desktop and the server space.
> > > ----/Article link-----
> > >
> > >
> > > Basically, both Novell and RedHat are backing away from pushing Linux to
> > > the desktop. But Ubuntu is not backing away.
> > >
> > > As a Fedora user, I see this as an issue. At home I need games and the
> > > applications that my family use. To date I have not had issues with Fedora
> > > up to 7. When I updated my machines at home, there were applications that I
> > > couldn't get for F8 so I installed F7. I have not checked to see if these
> > > are available for F8 at present. But they were available for the latest
> > > release of Ubuntu.
> > >
> > > I am interested in others views on this.
> >
> >
> > Do what you feel is best. I have some qualms with how Ubuntu runs
> > their distro, but I doubt they are shared by many. By all indications,
> > Ubuntu is a better desktop distribution than Fedora.
> >
> > I applaud RedHat for their focus, and would like to list some of the
> > reasons that I use Fedora and not Ubuntu
> >
> > * I started linux with RedHat, they made a lot possible for me
> > * I like RedHat as a company
> > * I like Fedora as a community
> > * I like the idea of pure OSS software, even though i do install
> > Flash, Nvidia drivers etc
> > * I believe a lot of work gets done in Fedora, although sometimes it
> > seems like there is no specific objective in mind
> > * I feel that there are far more jerks/iditos/annoyances in the
> > Ubuntu community than i would prefer to deal
> > * Fedora works for me
> I did not get into this earlier. The only superiority Ubuntu has for the
> naive user is that you can upgrade between versions seamlessly and
> automatically. But after updating you are pretty assured to be running
> an older version of key software than the latest Fedora offering.
> >
> --
> ================================================== =====================
> Epperson's law: When a man says it's a silly, childish game, it's
> probably something his wife can beat him at.
> ================================================== =====================
> Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net
>

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Old 04-22-2008, 10:38 PM
"Patrick O'Callaghan"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 14:29 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> The only real benefits of Ubuntu are proprietary drivers by default, and
> easier access to patent encumbered codecs... catering to users so much
> is why Ubuntu is so popular... no other reason.

How dare they offer something that users want :-)

poc

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Old 04-22-2008, 10:42 PM
Paul Shaffer
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Blasphemy, I say!* Burn them at the stake!* All rally to the one, pure Linux!


*


cough, cough.

--- On Tue, 4/22/08, Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallaghan@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallaghan@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves
To: "For users of Fedora" <fedora-list@redhat.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 22, 2008, 4:38 PM

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 14:29 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> The only real benefits of Ubuntu are proprietary drivers by default, and
> easier access to patent encumbered codecs... catering to users so much
> is why Ubuntu is so popular... no other reason.

How dare they offer something that users want :-)

poc

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Old 04-22-2008, 10:57 PM
Francis Earl
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Yes, despite it's legal ramifications... far better to risk your company
to appease users. It's not like it's not available for Fedora, but Red
Hat doesn't risk the future of the company on it.

Google for 'Microsoft billion mp3'

Mark is rich, but that's about 3 times his worth right there... he isn't
licensing MP3 or any other codec for his distro, Microsoft just licensed
it from the wrong people.

Now wonder consider ffmpeg for instance has Apple codecs, mpg2/4 and
Microsoft codecs just to name a few, and ask yourself whether it's smart
to distribute this stuff.

Only reason he gets away with it is because Ubuntu represents such a low
market share that it's not worth it today.

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 18:08 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 14:29 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> > The only real benefits of Ubuntu are proprietary drivers by default, and
> > easier access to patent encumbered codecs... catering to users so much
> > is why Ubuntu is so popular... no other reason.
>
> How dare they offer something that users want :-)
>
> poc
>

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Old 04-22-2008, 11:06 PM
"Patrick O'Callaghan"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 15:57 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> Yes, despite it's legal ramifications... far better to risk your company
> to appease users. It's not like it's not available for Fedora, but Red
> Hat doesn't risk the future of the company on it.
>
> Google for 'Microsoft billion mp3'
>
> Mark is rich, but that's about 3 times his worth right there... he isn't
> licensing MP3 or any other codec for his distro, Microsoft just licensed
> it from the wrong people.
>
> Now wonder consider ffmpeg for instance has Apple codecs, mpg2/4 and
> Microsoft codecs just to name a few, and ask yourself whether it's smart
> to distribute this stuff.
>
> Only reason he gets away with it is because Ubuntu represents such a low
> market share that it's not worth it today.

AFAIK he doesn't "distribute" it (for some meaning of "distribute"),
just makes it easy to get. I may be wrong (and I've no interest in
arguing about it), but I think the Fedora rationale for not doing the
same thing has more to do with avoiding lockin than avoiding lawsuits.

poc

> On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 18:08 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 14:29 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> > > The only real benefits of Ubuntu are proprietary drivers by default, and
> > > easier access to patent encumbered codecs... catering to users so much
> > > is why Ubuntu is so popular... no other reason.
> >
> > How dare they offer something that users want :-)
> >
> > poc
> >
>

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