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Old 04-24-2008, 04:33 PM
"Bob"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Seem kind of hypocritical to hijack a thread to complain about top posting?

Personally I would rather see top posting than a million off topic posts....

Bob





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Old 04-24-2008, 04:49 PM
tom
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 24 Apr 2008, bruce wrote:



oh god...

lawd, here we go again!! in san fran, bottom posting is cool...

i thing someone also stated that they once prefered side posting as well...

this thing happens a couple of times a year.. when the posting police on
various sites say "here's the correct" way to post dammit!!

nothing new here.. move on...!!

peace..


<<snip the posting police for brevity>>
<<bottom posting to reduce posting police anoyance>>
<<begging forgiveness because I'm _sure_ I will do something wrong>>

Nothing New Here?? time to move on...??

Come on! This is all the entertainment in some people's lives, and the
only exercise some others seem to get.


Ok. I'll go crawl under a rock with the rest of us vermin...

(And for the posting police - taking your critiques _off_ _list_ would at
least help calm the noise level down around here. For a Fedora oriented
list, Fedora issues seem to be relatively minor content.)


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Old 04-24-2008, 04:56 PM
BRUCE STANLEY
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Arthur Pemberton <pemboa@gmail.com> wrote: On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:47 AM, bruce wrote:
>
> oh god...
>
> lawd, here we go again!! in san fran, bottom posting is cool...
>
> i thing someone also stated that they once prefered side posting as well...
>
> this thing happens a couple of times a year.. when the posting police on
> various sites say "here's the correct" way to post dammit!!
>
> nothing new here.. move on...!!
>
> peace..

At the very least it seems like the courteous thing to do.

--

Does anyone now remember what the original thread here was about?

Sigh,* yet another thread hijacked.

Is this a courteous thing to do?




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Old 04-24-2008, 05:36 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

2008/4/24 BRUCE STANLEY <bruce.stanley@prodigy.net>:
>
>
> Arthur Pemberton <pemboa@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:47 AM, bruce wrote:
> >
> > oh god...
> >
> > lawd, here we go again!! in san fran, bottom posting is cool...
> >
> > i thing someone also stated that they once prefered side posting as
> well...
> >
> > this thing happens a couple of times a year.. when the posting police on
> > various sites say "here's the correct" way to post dammit!!
> >
> > nothing new here.. move on...!!
> >
> > peace..
>
> At the very least it seems like the courteous thing to do.
>
> --
>
> Does anyone now remember what the original thread here was about?
>
> Sigh, yet another thread hijacked.
>
> Is this a courteous thing to do?

No. My apologies.

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( www.pembo13.com )

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Old 04-24-2008, 06:36 PM
Tim
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 09:21 -0600, Steve Lindemann wrote:
> I've been trying to explain to one of my windoze centric co-workers
> why top posting is not appropriate and couldn't find the right words.

Often the simplest demonstration is to give them something written down
that's out of logical sequence. Either answer and question (pun
intended), or simply a dialogue.

It escapes a great many people's understanding that when you do
something for someone else (e.g. publish an e-mail), it's the other
people that have to understand it. They don't know what you were
thinking, they can only see what you present.

--
(This computer runs FC7, my others run FC4, FC5 & FC6, in case that's
important to the thread.)

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.

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Old 04-24-2008, 06:42 PM
Tim
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 10:49 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> For whatever reason, outlook users seem handicapped when it comes to
> bottom posting. I have bottom posted a few times in replies to them
> and they have simply not seen the message

Yes, I've noticed that. Especially if it's lengthy. They seem
incapable of looking at what's presented to them. They seem even worse
at handling interspersed responses. My response to a variety of, shall
we say "stupid people" lately, is to bluntly tell them to try reading
what's in front of them, instead of complaining.

Before someone gets up in arms, I'm referring to a few things that have
nothing to do with this list. But the principle's the same. Some just
do not look.

I'm reminded of some of my denser classmates in primary school who
"hated reading," and I still see people like that using computers today.
One wonders why some deliberately choose to use computers, and programs
that involve reading, when they do not like reading (by their own
admission).

Maybe that's what Flash is for... Ooh look, pictures...

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Old 04-24-2008, 07:09 PM
Les
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Fri, 2008-04-25 at 04:12 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 10:49 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> > For whatever reason, outlook users seem handicapped when it comes to
> > bottom posting. I have bottom posted a few times in replies to them
> > and they have simply not seen the message
>
> Yes, I've noticed that. Especially if it's lengthy. They seem
> incapable of looking at what's presented to them. They seem even worse
> at handling interspersed responses. My response to a variety of, shall
> we say "stupid people" lately, is to bluntly tell them to try reading
> what's in front of them, instead of complaining.
>
> Before someone gets up in arms, I'm referring to a few things that have
> nothing to do with this list. But the principle's the same. Some just
> do not look.
>
> I'm reminded of some of my denser classmates in primary school who
> "hated reading," and I still see people like that using computers today.
> One wonders why some deliberately choose to use computers, and programs
> that involve reading, when they do not like reading (by their own
> admission).
>
> Maybe that's what Flash is for... Ooh look, pictures...

I think some folks literally bought that "a picture is worth a thousand
words" line.

But there is yet another problem... Often we (and I include myself) do
not fully state the situation, as when we are familiar with the subject
and we assume (that dreaded word) that everyone else has equivalent
experience or knowledge. In that case, what is said makes perfect sense
to the writer, but may mean nothing at all to the reader.

My current case in point is the experience I just had with F8, where the
window for install options was upgrade, install with format in text or
graphic mode, but to do a clean install without formatting you had to
know to choose the option to review the partitioning scheme. The ideal
place should have been on the install options window, with an install
without formatting option, or even a bit of clear text explaining how to
accomplish the install without formatting. Without that, one would have
to find a particular bit of information on the web, when the means of
accessing the web is disabled. Don't anyone get upset or anything
(unless I missed something on the install page, then you may politely or
impolitely tell me I missed it and where to look. I'm a Navy Chief, so
you won't embarrass me I assure you.)

But reading and comprehension also assume that we all speak the same
language (maybe a safe assumption in some fields). Here things are
visible world wide, and even if it is in plain sight in (choose your
native language) there will be people who do not understand, or worse
people who almost understand as in a little knowledge is dangerous.

This is tough stuff. Educational video and the new immersive education
environments do have some edge in this stuff, and we can all hope that
one day we will all understand each other at least to socially
acceptable levels.

Regards,
Les H

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Old 04-24-2008, 07:34 PM
Anne Wilson
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thursday 24 April 2008 20:09, Les wrote:
> My current case in point is the experience I just had with F8, where the
> window for install options was upgrade, install with format in text or
> graphic mode, but to do a clean install without formatting you had to
> know to choose the option to review the partitioning scheme. *The ideal
> place should have been on the install options window, with an install
> without formatting option, or even a bit of clear text explaining how to
> accomplish the install without formatting.

Even when we do speak the same language, there are other factors. The stress
level during an install for instance. I've done many installs, mostly of
Mandriva and a couple of Fedora, but when doing this last Fedora I couldn't
see where that custom partitioning was done. Crazy, but stress overcame
reason. It really does need to be more obvious.

And talking about it in a thread like this will get us nowhere, as the
developers and maintainers all gave up reading it days ago.

Anne

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Old 04-24-2008, 09:06 PM
BRUCE STANLEY
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Arthur Pemberton <pemboa@gmail.com> wrote: 2008/4/24 BRUCE STANLEY :
>
>
> Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:47 AM, bruce wrote:
> >
> > oh god...
> >
> > lawd, here we go again!! in san fran, bottom posting is cool...
> >
> > i thing someone also stated that they once prefered side posting as
> well...
> >
> > this thing happens a couple of times a year.. when the posting police on
> > various sites say "here's the correct" way to post dammit!!
> >
> > nothing new here.. move on...!!
> >
> > peace..
>
> At the very least it seems like the courteous thing to do.
>
> --
>
> Does anyone now
remember what the original thread here was about?
>
> Sigh, yet another thread hijacked.
>
> Is this a courteous thing to do?

No. My apologies.

-

That's ok Arthur, I wasn't directing that statement at you directly.
We just seem to get a lot of threads hijacked from time to time
on subject matters such as this.

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Old 04-24-2008, 10:03 PM
Daniele Guazzoni
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

I try to come back to the initial topic.

I'm following since RedHat 5.0 (which I bought in a bookstore).
As a network and security engineer the reason why to use Linux, BSD, ... but not Microsoft is pretty clear.
I've just simply get pissed off (sorry for my rudeness) of apply updates to security holes twice a week...
I know that the guys and girls in Redmond have evolved and their OS, from the security point of view, are now better then years ago but still...

I have nothing against paying for a piece of software but I want it reliable and I still want to know what's running under my desk.
I personally think that the RH approach (cutting-edge for free on Fedora and stable but licensed on RHEL) is absolutely ok.
It should also be clear that at the end of the day they want to see money flowing in (and keep sponsoring Fedora).

One of the greatest feature of Fedora is the strong community behind it.
If suddenly RH decide to drop the workstation market don't you think that someone will pick up the challenge ?
If you look back at the days RedHat Linux was for free there was only a handful developers and look at Fedora now !


I partially agree with the "lazy" statement earlier in this discussion.
How many of you has once in life compiled the source code and installed manually KDE or Gnome ?
Meaning: yes there was a life without RPM !
Maybe some of you lost the knowledge (or never realized) how Linux works, the way is set up, the inner-sanctum...
Maybe some of you are used of insert a DVD, click a few time and have a system running in 15 minutes...
Or simply some of you complains about bugs or missing features and forgets that you just downloaded it for free...

Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy the easy-life of a graphical setup, wizards and system-tools but if I miss something I'm not lazy enough and I write some shell scripts or compile my own code.

Ok, now you can restart discussing about top or bottom posting :-)



regards


-------------------------------------------------------------
Daniele Guazzoni
Senior Network Engineer, CCNP, CCNA


Linux and AMD-x86_64 or do you still with Windows and Intel ?

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