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Old 04-23-2008, 07:24 AM
Sukhdev Jadhav
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 23:59 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> It's funny, because if you take away OpenOffice.org/OpenSolaris
> they're
> really done very little, and no distros actually use Sun's OpenOffice,
> they use Novells (go-oo.org) because Sun stiffles development too
> much.

I my fedora 8 i can see openoffice.org 2.3 from sun microsystems not
go-oo.org.

I am confused.


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Old 04-23-2008, 07:32 AM
Francis Earl
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

How are you trying to determine that?

Does your OpenOffice support macros? If so, you're using go-oo.org.

On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 12:54 +0530, Sukhdev Jadhav wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 23:59 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> > It's funny, because if you take away OpenOffice.org/OpenSolaris
> > they're
> > really done very little, and no distros actually use Sun's OpenOffice,
> > they use Novells (go-oo.org) because Sun stiffles development too
> > much.
>
> I my fedora 8 i can see openoffice.org 2.3 from sun microsystems not
> go-oo.org.
>
> I am confused.
>
>

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Old 04-23-2008, 08:07 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Tue, 2008-04-22 at 18:48 -0700, Francis Earl wrote:
> Sun Java is not redistributable and currently isn't open source, thus
> goes against Fedora values in 2 ways.

Top posting isn't considered a good thing on this list. FYI, Ric

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Old 04-23-2008, 12:44 PM
Neal Becker
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

I know this is a bit OT, but
I was rather putoff from Ubuntu because I use x86_64, and when I last
looked, their x86_64 solution (based on Debian) used chroot to install i386
along with x86_64. I found this solution ugly.

I wonder if this is still true or if they are now more like Fedora?

BTW, I still like Fedora because of the community (don't really know
anything about Ubuntu in this respect). In the past I've tried to
contribute in other communities (e.g., Suse) and found them not
receptive/cooperative.

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Old 04-23-2008, 01:03 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Francis Earl wrote:
You say that as though you think IBM or Red Hat can teach Sun something
about giving away code. Sun being the largest single open source
contributor... (3x IBM, 5x RH,
http://ec.europa.eu/enterprise/ict/policy/doc/2006-11-20-flossimpact.pdf,
pg. 51 - and that was before opensolaris, zfs, or the jdk). Perhaps you
imagine the tail is wagging the dog here.



It's funny, because if you take away OpenOffice.org/OpenSolaris they're
really done very little,


Take away OOo and no one would be using Linux on the desktop at all.


and no distros actually use Sun's OpenOffice,
they use Novells (go-oo.org) because Sun stiffles development too much.


That wouldn't exist without Sun either, and without Sun stifling anything.


Sun is proprietary Open Source unless it suites them - see CDDL for why
this is true.


That's a religious issue. I'm trying to be logical here.


Even in the case of NFS, I believe there was a BSD
alternative developing traction prior to its release.


Yes, but theirs mostly worked at release. I lost data and time to
several of the linux releases.


Until someone proves that device driver code is derived from one of the
OS's it can be used with and is not fair use of an interface it is all
speculation.


Umm, how do you suppose a driver work if it doesn't make calls into the
kernel? Using those functions makes it a derived work.


No it doesn't. If it did, SCO would have been right in their lawsuit
that things originally developed under Unix were owned by them (well, if
they had actually owned those rights anyway...). No one has ever proven
that this isn't fair use even in the general case, and Linux is
different in having a special exception specifically permitting that in
its copyright notice which would make it particularly difficult to prove.


I really have to wonder why even a small percent of OS users choose
something that goes out of its way to make things harder for them.


They use it because they don't want to allow others to continue making
it hard for them to make their own decisions. If people knew the types
of restrictions they instill on themselves by using proprietary
software, no one would ever use it.


Yet you are talking specifically about restrictions that you think
should keep them from using the software they want.



It is because of the vast amount of proprietary code that users are
forced to use things like Microsoft Office.


But it is the GPL restrictions that keep us from having competitive
alternatives.



Wait - did you say someone cares about users?


You're right, they should do it asap. It's not like there aren't open
source alternatives that are adequate. Personally I'm sick of hearing
that ATI and nVidia don't work with latest releases of software. If they
turned that over the guys developing that software, we wouldn't have to
wait.


It's funny that your concept of freedom requires you to tell other
people what they should choose and other companies what they should do.



And you are unrealistic about the quality and expedience of the open
source drivers. How long did it take to get a working firewire driver?


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Old 04-23-2008, 02:31 PM
Paul Shaffer
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

This is the attitude that will eventually marginalize Fedora into a non-issue:

--- On Tue, 4/22/08, Francis Earl <lunitik@gmail.com> wrote:

No. I was the person that stated that this is EXACTLY why people like
Ubuntu, they're lazy. Such things are available, but Joe User doesn't
care to figure out where to get it.

If you want these modules in the Fedora kernel, ask upstream to include
it, else it's not going into Fedora. Even file bugs to request they be
included upstream within the Fedora bugzilla.

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Old 04-23-2008, 04:13 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Paul Shaffer wrote:

> This is the attitude that will eventually marginalize Fedora into a
> non-issue:

I humbly disagree. There's a right and a wrong way to do things, and I'm
glad fedora chooses to take the higher-ground.

-- Rex

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Old 04-23-2008, 04:20 PM
"max bianco"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:13 PM, Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote:
> Paul Shaffer wrote:
>
> > This is the attitude that will eventually marginalize Fedora into a
> > non-issue:
>
> I humbly disagree. There's a right and a wrong way to do things, and I'm
> glad fedora chooses to take the higher-ground.
>
> -- Rex
>

+1

Max

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Old 04-23-2008, 04:58 PM
BRUCE STANLEY
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> wrote: Paul Shaffer wrote:

> This is the attitude that will eventually marginalize Fedora into a
> non-issue:

I humbly disagree. There's a right and a wrong way to do things, and I'm
glad fedora chooses to take the higher-ground.

-- Rex

*Taking the higher ground means keeping your feet dry.

But if you want help/rescue the drowning user
*(e.g. Laptop users, some desktoppers),* you have to be willing to
get your feet wet!**** :-)



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Old 04-23-2008, 05:07 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

BRUCE STANLEY wrote:


*/Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu>/* wrote:

Paul Shaffer wrote:

> This is the attitude that will eventually marginalize Fedora into a
> non-issue:

I humbly disagree. There's a right and a wrong way to do things, and I'm
glad fedora chooses to take the higher-ground.



Taking the higher ground means keeping your feet dry.

But if you want help/rescue the drowning user
(e.g. Laptop users, some desktoppers), you have to be willing to
get your feet wet! :-)


Yes, what's the point of having a distribution if the user still has to
gather his own bits from various scattered projects?


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