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Old 05-01-2008, 03:34 AM
Res
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 1 May 2008, Tim wrote:


Sure. The consensus if you want to do something illegal, use something
else. There's nothing stopping you from doing so, and there's plenty of
"something elses" for you to use.


The definition of illegal is wrongly exampled here. I know its been a long
time since I bothered reading fedora EULA, but I must have missed the bit
that said "by use of this software you automatically submit to the non-
exclusive jurisdiction of the U.S courts and its laws" if that's in there,
no wonder I'm not using this crud again.


A more appropriate response would have been "if you want to do something
that is illegal in your country, use something else", and if unsure,
consult a local lawyer, not a bunch of loonies on the net who all profess
to be legal experts and think the entire world is governed by U.S law,
which thankfully, it aint!




--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

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Old 05-01-2008, 04:58 AM
"Patrick O'Callaghan"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 08:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Da Rock wrote:
>
> > Actually, based on the preposition here by Redhat then even hosting this
> > list would cause illegalities to be linked to them as every time the
> > question comes up someone posts links and answers...
>
> User generated content in the lists aren't the same as official website
> documentation. Refer the following for details.
>
> http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.advisory-board/3288

Rahul, thanks for that link, it's very interesting. This message seems
to address my question fairly directly:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.advisory-board/3351,
specifically this:

"You cannot link to livna/RPM Fusion from within a package, RH Legal was
very clear on that. You can link to the Fedoraproject.org page that
links to it, but not directly to it."

This would imply that the restriction is not transitive.

poc

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Old 05-01-2008, 05:01 AM
Da Rock
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 13:34 +1000, Res wrote:
> On Thu, 1 May 2008, Tim wrote:
>
> > Sure. The consensus if you want to do something illegal, use something
> > else. There's nothing stopping you from doing so, and there's plenty of
> > "something elses" for you to use.
>
> The definition of illegal is wrongly exampled here. I know its been a long
> time since I bothered reading fedora EULA, but I must have missed the bit
> that said "by use of this software you automatically submit to the non-
> exclusive jurisdiction of the U.S courts and its laws" if that's in there,
> no wonder I'm not using this crud again.
>
> A more appropriate response would have been "if you want to do something
> that is illegal in your country, use something else", and if unsure,
> consult a local lawyer, not a bunch of loonies on the net who all profess
> to be legal experts and think the entire world is governed by U.S law,
> which thankfully, it aint!

Indeed! Here, here. Trouble is their law invariably gets enforced
elsewhere due to treaties, alliances, imposed restrictions where charity
is given, and other quasi-legal means. And I don't believe they've even
heard of the bill of human rights, let alone understand and believe in
it.

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Old 05-01-2008, 05:05 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:



"You cannot link to livna/RPM Fusion from within a package, RH Legal was
very clear on that. You can link to the Fedoraproject.org page that
links to it, but not directly to it."

This would imply that the restriction is not transitive.


Correct but the content of the page is also important. If it gave
specific instructions, that wouldn't be allowed. What we have done based
on the feedback from legal is at


http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/OtherRepositories

Rahul


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Old 05-01-2008, 05:07 AM
"Patrick O'Callaghan"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 17:18 -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
> I thought that the case for using GPL'd code was that someone else
> could
> modify your code freely, but they would have to submit the changes and
> improvements back to the original "author" for approval to be used in
> the next release cycle of the project.

That's a misreading of the GPL (or a misstatement of what you mean).
Firstly there is no obligation to make available your changes to anyone
else, as long as you don't pass them on to a third party, in which case
the mods must be subject to the GPL. Secondly, even in the latter case
there is no obligation to submit anything for the original author's
approval. You simply have to make it available to him the same as to
anyone else. If he incorporates your changes fine. If not, you've
created a fork, which is also fine.

poc

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Old 05-01-2008, 06:18 AM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 12:01 AM, Da Rock <rock_on_the_web@comcen.com.au> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 13:34 +1000, Res wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 1 May 2008, Tim wrote:
> >
> > > Sure. The consensus if you want to do something illegal, use something
> > > else. There's nothing stopping you from doing so, and there's plenty of
> > > "something elses" for you to use.
> >
> > The definition of illegal is wrongly exampled here. I know its been a long
> > time since I bothered reading fedora EULA, but I must have missed the bit
> > that said "by use of this software you automatically submit to the non-
> > exclusive jurisdiction of the U.S courts and its laws" if that's in there,
> > no wonder I'm not using this crud again.
> >
> > A more appropriate response would have been "if you want to do something
> > that is illegal in your country, use something else", and if unsure,
> > consult a local lawyer, not a bunch of loonies on the net who all profess
> > to be legal experts and think the entire world is governed by U.S law,
> > which thankfully, it aint!
>
> Indeed! Here, here. Trouble is their law invariably gets enforced
> elsewhere due to treaties, alliances, imposed restrictions where charity
> is given, and other quasi-legal means. And I don't believe they've even
> heard of the bill of human rights, let alone understand and believe in
> it.


Either way, Fedora is no martyr for the cause of any US global
dominance -- Fedora is just a community which puts out a Linux distro,
and happens to be based in the most lawyer friendly country of this
time period.


--
Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
( www.pembo13.com )

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Old 05-01-2008, 07:04 AM
Res
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 1 May 2008, Da Rock wrote:


A more appropriate response would have been "if you want to do something
that is illegal in your country, use something else", and if unsure,
consult a local lawyer, not a bunch of loonies on the net who all profess
to be legal experts and think the entire world is governed by U.S law,
which thankfully, it aint!


Indeed! Here, here. Trouble is their law invariably gets enforced
elsewhere due to treaties, alliances, imposed restrictions where charity
is given, and other quasi-legal means. And I don't believe they've even
heard of the bill of human rights, let alone understand and believe in
it.


Yes the reciprocol BS may be a problem, it certainly is in Australia with
regards to copyright and patent laws, however now we have a change in
Govt, maybe they'll recind the FTA, or at least make it more fair for
Australia where the current FTA favours the U.S substantially, but don't

despair, not all of it can be enforced, only some things, the complete US
DCMA (or whatever it is) is not enforcable, only some points are, just like
there would be some points of ours that are not enforcable there, so again
consult your lawyer, there have been several successful legal challenges,
and there will I'm sure be many more



--
Cheers
Res

I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook, thunderbird and gmail
often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it hard to tell who said
what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use a compliant mailer.

--
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To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 
Old 05-01-2008, 09:23 AM
David Boles
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Ric Moore wrote:

On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:53 -0400, David Boles wrote:

Ed Greshko wrote:

max bianco wrote:

So life is pointless?

Life is not....

But this "discussion" is...


I recall that 'it', this discussion, starts just before a release and
continues for weeks. Then it dies only to be resurrected again with the coming
of the next release. ;-)


Software Easter, huh? When the dead are resurrected in Linus and born
anew? <chuckles> Ric



Yeah. Kind of like that. There are several 'same threads' that rise from the
ashes at release time, float for a while, and, as interest wanes, eventually
die out. Only to rise again next release. ;-)


--


David

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Old 05-01-2008, 11:51 AM
Antonio Olivares
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

--- Res <res@ausics.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 1 May 2008, Tim wrote:
>
> > Sure. The consensus if you want to do something
> illegal, use something
> > else. There's nothing stopping you from doing so,
> and there's plenty of
> > "something elses" for you to use.
>
> The definition of illegal is wrongly exampled here.
> I know its been a long
> time since I bothered reading fedora EULA, but I
> must have missed the bit
> that said "by use of this software you automatically
> submit to the non-
> exclusive jurisdiction of the U.S courts and its
> laws" if that's in there,
> no wonder I'm not using this crud again.
>
> A more appropriate response would have been "if you
> want to do something
> that is illegal in your country, use something
> else", and if unsure,
> consult a local lawyer, not a bunch of loonies on
> the net who all profess
> to be legal experts and think the entire world is
> governed by U.S law,
> which thankfully, it aint!
+1
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers
> Res
>
> I read usenet and lists in pine. But m$ outlook,
> thunderbird and gmail
> often use html span/whatever for quotes, makes it
> hard to tell who said
> what, so I dont try. If I ignore you, thats why! Use
> a compliant mailer.
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> fedora-list@redhat.com
> To unsubscribe:
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>



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Old 05-01-2008, 12:04 PM
Antonio Olivares
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

--- David Boles <dgboles@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ric Moore wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 16:53 -0400, David Boles
> wrote:
> >> Ed Greshko wrote:
> >>> max bianco wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> So life is pointless?
> >>> Life is not....
> >>>
> >>> But this "discussion" is...
> >>
> >> I recall that 'it', this discussion, starts just
> before a release and
> >> continues for weeks. Then it dies only to be
> resurrected again with the coming
> >> of the next release. ;-)
> >
> > Software Easter, huh? When the dead are
> resurrected in Linus and born
> > anew? <chuckles> Ric
>
>
> Yeah. Kind of like that. There are several 'same
> threads' that rise from the
> ashes at release time, float for a while, and, as
> interest wanes, eventually
> die out. Only to rise again next release. ;-)
>
All it takes is a small spark and the cycle begins
again. Then it dies out, and comes back again. Kind
of like Haley's Comet which crosses Earth's path every
76 years. These threads come back every so often.
They are like cyclic groups in Abstract Algebra.

Many pros/Many cons. Nobody wins

Regards,

Antonio
> --
>
>
> David
>
> > --
> fedora-list mailing list
> fedora-list@redhat.com
> To unsubscribe:
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list



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