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Old 04-25-2008, 01:06 AM
"bruce"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

oh lawd!!!

have mercy on us poor souls wh don't know no betta!!!

puleze fogive us!!

are we going to be smotten down!!

note the sarcasm!!



-----Original Message-----
From: fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com]On Behalf Of Ric Moore
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 5:58 PM
To: For users of Fedora
Subject: Re: Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves


On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 20:25 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 03:46 +0000, g wrote:
> > nothing wrong with top posting
>
> I could argue against that, but I'll just say don't do it places that
> you're not supposed to, which includes this list. Read the guidelines
> for it. You should have been informed about this when you subscribed.

Tim, I went to the subscribe area and didn't the the link nor the
suggestions listed there. Sacrileges! Ric

--
================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar
http://www.wayward4now.net <---down4now too
================================================

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Old 04-25-2008, 01:10 AM
"max bianco"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 9:06 PM, bruce <bedouglas@earthlink.net> wrote:
> oh lawd!!!
>
> have mercy on us poor souls wh don't know no betta!!!
>
> puleze fogive us!!
>
> are we going to be smotten down!!
>
> note the sarcasm!!
>
and the horrendous spelling, I hope that was part of the sarcasm!!

Max

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Old 04-25-2008, 01:35 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 08:34 -0300, Heitor Moraes wrote:
> Kid,
>
> I started to go online with Red Hat Hurricane at 98.

Jesus, I hosted the Hot Sauce eating contest at the last RedHat Expo in
2000 with Mad Dog Hall and a pile of other Linux notables. I started in
1978 with a garage built Apple ][ that I blew 2 grand on. I've started 4
computer user groups around the US by 1990 and maintained a vintage
collection of almost every cp/m machine ever built, in Helena Montana. I
opened a Fidonet 8 line BBS for free in 1993, worked for RedHat
1999-2000 after 26 years in the chemical industry, and I'm 58 years old.
Check out my Linux User number, clueless.

> At that time, BBS were the only kind of "online public universe" we
> had here in Brazil.
> And since that time, loots of kids like you always doing this
> "flamewars" about top posting and then start to offend with this "you
> are newbie" argument.

Compared to most on this list, you are. Enjoy being young. I'll bet
that within another five years, you'll be ranting at top posters too!
For the very same reasons given in responses. <grins> Tim will hold the
money until then. Now, to whomever maintains the subscription pages,
please put the "List Rules" link back. Otherwise, we have anarchy. Ric


--
================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar
http://www.wayward4now.net <---down4now too
================================================

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Old 04-25-2008, 01:41 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thursday 24 April 2008, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
>On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Steve Lindemann <steve@marmot.org> wrote:
>> Ric Moore wrote:
>> > Top posting is universally despised among Linux and Usenet users for
>> > years and doing so is the mark of a newbie user who comes from a
>> > Windows-centric background, where such things are condoned like having
>> > drive letters instead of names.
>>
>> I've been trying to explain to one of my windoze centric co-workers why
>> top posting is not appropriate and couldn't find the right words. Thank
>> you! List ettiquete has always been a contentious issue, right from the
>> beginning when we etched our missives using rock tablets (I vaguely
>> remember it 8^) but I've always read from left to right and top to bottom
>> and it's hard, for me anyway, to go at it backwards.
>
>For whatever reason, outlook users seem handicapped when it comes to
>bottom posting. I have bottom posted a few times in replies to them
>and they have simply not seen the message
>
I don't see that as your fault Arther, unless judicious snippage might have
been done in order to get your reply on the first screen. OTOH we have NDI
what screen resolution the OP may be using. Sometimes I think about that but
mostly no. And I occasionally will top post a line that says 'see below' if
I'm in a good mood.

The whole point of the anti-top post thing pertains to being able to read the
conversation in the order as it took place. To me, its a waste of time to
try and re-order a conversation in order to put everything in context, and I
suspect many do as I do, unless the top poster can make sense, I just keep on
hitting the + key to continue on to the next message. If I miss a question
that I feel qualified to answer because that original question is now 3
screens below mine, I am not inclined to worry about it too much as either
the OP has, with all the messages posted in reply that have spaced his down
into the basement, has either already gotten his answer, or because he is a
top reader, has missed the one reply that fixes his problem, well...

The list rules for that should be followed, and followed without 40kb of
belly-aching IMO. Your basic example of 'when in Rome, do as Romans do'...

>--
>Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
>( www.pembo13.com )



--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
"Facts are stupid things."
-- President Ronald Reagan
(a blooper from his speeach at the '88 GOP convention)

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Old 04-25-2008, 03:13 AM
"max bianco"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

I am as guilty as anyone of breaking the rules, its just fun to do
sometimes. I haven't been on this list very long but I try to do as
the romans do, in anycase lets do as the romans suggest and get back
on topic.

Someone said that ubuntu was better or apparently better than Fedora.
I asked how and no one answered me. Now I am not saying that anyone
must answer me, but if someone can tell me that would be great because
i think i was the only one to question this statement, which implies
that everyone else agrees with it, which of course makes me wonder why
all of you use Fedora instead of ubuntu, or do you actually use
Fedora?

Max

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Old 04-25-2008, 03:23 AM
Craig White
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 23:13 -0400, max bianco wrote:
> I am as guilty as anyone of breaking the rules, its just fun to do
> sometimes. I haven't been on this list very long but I try to do as
> the romans do, in anycase lets do as the romans suggest and get back
> on topic.
>
> Someone said that ubuntu was better or apparently better than Fedora.
> I asked how and no one answered me. Now I am not saying that anyone
> must answer me, but if someone can tell me that would be great because
> i think i was the only one to question this statement, which implies
> that everyone else agrees with it, which of course makes me wonder why
> all of you use Fedora instead of ubuntu, or do you actually use
> Fedora?
----
there is no better...only different

Ubuntu distributes proprietary, binary blobs, and incompatible license
software which tends to make some things easier for users like playing
mp3's whereas Fedora will never play an mp3 on install without either
setting up a third party repo like livna or buying the fluendo codecs.

Craig

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Old 04-25-2008, 03:24 AM
gene horodecki
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

I have Ubuntu installed on my main home PC + a thinkpad T42 laptop, and
Fedora installed on another Thinkpad T42 laptop. I have to say, I wish
I'd installed Fedora on my main PC as well. Fedora feels much more
stable and robust to me then Ubuntu does. I think a lot of people like
Ubuntu because they like Synaptec package manager. I've installed Yumex
on Fedora and it does the exact same thing.

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 23:13 -0400, max bianco wrote:
> I am as guilty as anyone of breaking the rules, its just fun to do
> sometimes. I haven't been on this list very long but I try to do as
> the romans do, in anycase lets do as the romans suggest and get back
> on topic.
>
> Someone said that ubuntu was better or apparently better than Fedora.
> I asked how and no one answered me. Now I am not saying that anyone
> must answer me, but if someone can tell me that would be great because
> i think i was the only one to question this statement, which implies
> that everyone else agrees with it, which of course makes me wonder why
> all of you use Fedora instead of ubuntu, or do you actually use
> Fedora?
>
> Max
>

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Old 04-25-2008, 07:00 AM
Andrew Kelly
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 10:49 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 10:21 AM, Steve Lindemann <steve@marmot.org> wrote:
> > Ric Moore wrote:
> >
> > > Top posting is universally despised among Linux and Usenet users for
> > > years and doing so is the mark of a newbie user who comes from a
> > > Windows-centric background, where such things are condoned like having
> > > drive letters instead of names.
> > >
> >
> > I've been trying to explain to one of my windoze centric co-workers why top
> > posting is not appropriate and couldn't find the right words. Thank you!
> > List ettiquete has always been a contentious issue, right from the beginning
> > when we etched our missives using rock tablets (I vaguely remember it 8^)
> > but I've always read from left to right and top to bottom and it's hard, for
> > me anyway, to go at it backwards.
>
>
> For whatever reason, outlook users seem handicapped
This is probably where you should have ended your post, Arthur.
:-)



> when it comes to
> bottom posting. I have bottom posted a few times in replies to them
> and they have simply not seen the message
>
>
> --
> Fedora 7 : sipping some of that moonshine
> ( www.pembo13.com )
>

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Old 04-25-2008, 07:27 AM
Andrew Kelly
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 17:30 -0500, Les Mikesell wrote:
> Daniele Guazzoni wrote:

<snip>

> > If suddenly RH decide to drop the workstation market don't you think
> > that someone will pick up the challenge ? If you look back at the days
> > RedHat Linux was for free there was only a handful developers and look
> > at Fedora now !
>
> Yes, but... I still have a couple of machines running RH 7.3 that have
> never crashed and one of which had a 4+ year uptime run. I don't think
> fedora is likely to match that.
>

Valhalla was great, wunnit? I'm retiring my last two production 7.3
boxes in just under 3 weeks. Incidentally, those are the last production
RH hosts I maintain. My opinion only, of course, but my point of view
was that was the last production-ready kit to come from RH without a
price tag. Psyche, as groovy as the name was, was a fiasco. The whole
psyche experience soured me on 9 as far as deployment was concerned. And
after that it was either write a check or deal with excessively short
EOL cycles.
Not knocking Fedora here, so don't anybody knot their knickers; I still
use it as my personal desktop of choice. But the rest of the RH model
lost me as a "deploying customer". Although I have to admit that I've
never driven CentOS for a paycheck, and probably should amend that.

Sorry for babbling, there.

RH 7.3 was nice, I'm sorry to let it go.

Andy

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Old 04-25-2008, 08:17 AM
Tim
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Tim:
>> You should have been informed about this when you subscribed.

Ric Moore:
> Tim, I went to the subscribe area and didn't the the link nor the
> suggestions listed there. Sacrileges! Ric

On most other lists that I subscribe to, you get this kind of
information when you subscribe as part of the process (on the
subscription page, or the confirmation emails).

I know you don't like "shoulds," but the subscription process really
should provide usage information to the new subscriber as part of the
process. It's rather hard for newcomers to know what's expected if they
were never informed about it. And it's no good putting the information
somewhere else that they haven't seen before, or during, subscribing.

--
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I read messages from the public lists.

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