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Old 04-24-2008, 10:27 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:03 PM, Daniele Guazzoni
<daniele.guazzoni@gcomm.ch> wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, I also enjoy the easy-life of a graphical setup,
> wizards and system-tools but if I miss something I'm not lazy enough and I
> write some shell scripts or compile my own code.

If you're getting paid for this, you may want to consider building
(and contributing) a few system-config tools yourself. Seems like it
would be relevant to your work.

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Old 04-24-2008, 10:30 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Daniele Guazzoni wrote:


I have nothing against paying for a piece of software but I want it
reliable and I still want to know what's running under my desk.
I personally think that the RH approach (cutting-edge for free on Fedora
and stable but licensed on RHEL) is absolutely ok.


Yes, but... Back in the day when RH was making its name, you got to
keep the versions you helped debug. That is, the X.0 version that
corresponds to today's fedora, gracefully evolved to an X.2 and X.3
version that you could trust. That doesn't happen anymore and if you
want something resembling the versions with the bugs shaken out you have
to blow away the copy of fedora and install the closest match of Centos
that has been released. It works but its not fun.



One of the greatest feature of Fedora is the strong community behind it.


But I think it would be absolutely hilarious if some other distribution
is the first to include fedora directory server and jboss either
included or as installable packages.


If suddenly RH decide to drop the workstation market don't you think
that someone will pick up the challenge ? If you look back at the days
RedHat Linux was for free there was only a handful developers and look
at Fedora now !


Yes, but... I still have a couple of machines running RH 7.3 that have
never crashed and one of which had a 4+ year uptime run. I don't think
fedora is likely to match that.


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Old 04-24-2008, 10:38 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Les Mikesell wrote:

But I think it would be absolutely hilarious if some other distribution
is the first to include fedora directory server and jboss either
included or as installable packages.


Fedora has included Fedora directory server for the past couple of
releases already. JBoss isn't there since Fedora includes OpenJDK 6 in
the development branch and JBoss is certified against a older version.


Red Hat developing some code that first gets included in some other
distribution all the time. That is the nature of free and open source
software. Nothing hilarious about it.


Rahul

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Old 04-24-2008, 10:48 PM
"Arthur Pemberton"
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, Apr 24, 2008 at 5:38 PM, Rahul Sundaram
<sundaram@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Les Mikesell wrote:
>
>
> > But I think it would be absolutely hilarious if some other distribution is
> the first to include fedora directory server and jboss either included or as
> installable packages.
> >
>
> Fedora has included Fedora directory server for the past couple of releases
> already. JBoss isn't there since Fedora includes OpenJDK 6 in the
> development branch and JBoss is certified against a older version.
>
> Red Hat developing some code that first gets included in some other
> distribution all the time. That is the nature of free and open source
> software. Nothing hilarious about it.

I would think that would be a positive thing.

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Old 04-24-2008, 11:06 PM
Daniele Guazzoni
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Les Mikesell wrote:
Yes, but... I still have a couple of machines running RH 7.3 that have
never crashed and one of which had a 4+ year uptime run. I don't think
fedora is likely to match that.



Well, if I want a stable system I'm likely not using Fedora.
The Fedora project was clearly declared a "cutting-edge" so don't expect 100% stability or compatibility.
My last DNS was running on OpenBSD 2.1 for over 7 years, with a short downtime to swap a disk.

Arthur Pemberton wrote:

If you're getting paid for this, you may want to consider building
(and contributing) a few system-config tools yourself. Seems like it
would be relevant to your work.


There would be a conflict with the company policy...
I'm not allowed to distribute code which relates to my work.

But yes, I'm an 120% convinced open-source and community-development guy.



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Old 04-24-2008, 11:20 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Daniele Guazzoni wrote:

Yes, but... I still have a couple of machines running RH 7.3 that have
never crashed and one of which had a 4+ year uptime run. I don't
think fedora is likely to match that.



Well, if I want a stable system I'm likely not using Fedora.


But how do you get 'your' components developed to match the system
without one or the other lagging far behind?


The Fedora project was clearly declared a "cutting-edge" so don't expect
100% stability or compatibility.


That's not a problem in early development of your 'next' version. The
problem is that there is no longer a graceful way to get from that
bleeding edge you wanted to test to the final version you want to keep
running until the next major change.


My last DNS was running on OpenBSD 2.1 for over 7 years, with a short
downtime to swap a disk.


Upgrading DNS - or not - isn't a problem since it doesn't involve
anything particularly version-specific. Try something like a complex
web site in mod_perl or java where you don't want to stay too far behind
the new features but you also have to work around incompatibilities at
version upgrades.



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Old 04-24-2008, 11:30 PM
Les Mikesell
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Arthur Pemberton wrote:



But I think it would be absolutely hilarious if some other distribution is

the first to include fedora directory server and jboss either included or as
installable packages.
Fedora has included Fedora directory server for the past couple of releases
already. JBoss isn't there since Fedora includes OpenJDK 6 in the
development branch and JBoss is certified against a older version.

Red Hat developing some code that first gets included in some other
distribution all the time. That is the nature of free and open source
software. Nothing hilarious about it.


I would think that would be a positive thing.


I'd just expect fedora, given it's 'bleeding-edge' nature and close
coupling with Red Hat to be the first place that RH-owned projects
should be introduced and if it isn't, it seems like someone has dropped
the ball.


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Old 04-24-2008, 11:51 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

Les Mikesell wrote:



I'd just expect fedora, given it's 'bleeding-edge' nature and close
coupling with Red Hat to be the first place that RH-owned projects
should be introduced and if it isn't, it seems like someone has dropped
the ball.


Not really. A lot of development within free software happens async.
Upstream projects (even Red Hat initiated ones) are not necessarily tied
to the Fedora release schedule and in fact in most cases are not. Fedora
Directory server like I said is already part of Fedora. If you are
talking about JBoss, it is a relatively recent Red Hat acquisition and
many Java applications are not deployed in a packaged state but merely
dropped into the system from a cross platform archive (jar or zip files).


The current stable version of JBoss was developed and certified for a
older version of the JVM and JVM version details are a critically
important thing for many Java programs even minor variations between JVM
behavior can have a major impact in Java programs. The latest
development version of JBoss is IIRC developed against Java 6. So when
it gets stable, it can potentially be packaged within Fedora.


Rahul

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Old 04-25-2008, 12:57 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 20:25 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 03:46 +0000, g wrote:
> > nothing wrong with top posting
>
> I could argue against that, but I'll just say don't do it places that
> you're not supposed to, which includes this list. Read the guidelines
> for it. You should have been informed about this when you subscribed.

Tim, I went to the subscribe area and didn't the the link nor the
suggestions listed there. Sacrileges! Ric

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================================================
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..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:05 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default Fedora Desktop future- RedHat moves

On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 23:39 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-04-24 at 08:34 -0300, Heitor Moraes wrote:
> > I'll only bottom-post if that were a list for answers for a list of
> > question.
>
> This list comes with a set of instructions, pay attention to them.
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
>
> It's up to you to conform to the list expectations, not the other way
> around. The etiquette of the list was established long before you
> joined. You only shoot yourself in the foot by pissing off the
> regulars.
>
> You come off as even more of a dingbat for calling Ric a kid,
> considering that he's anything but a youngster.

Well, compared to you I am! <grins and ducks> Ric

--
================================================
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
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