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Old 10-06-2008, 07:57 AM
Karl Auer
 
Default NetworkManager

On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 12:49 +0100, (``-_-) -- Fernando wrote:
> There is a PPA for Hardy, if you wanna try it:
> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/network-manager/ubuntu hardy main

What is a PPA and what can I do with it? At the URL mentioned there are
only descriptions of things (as far as I can tell).

Regards, K.

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Old 10-06-2008, 01:57 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default NetworkManager

Karl Auer wrote:

> On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:08 -0300, Derek Broughton wrote:
>> OK - that's a matter of semantics - it seems to me that if you
>> don't "enable" it, you aren't really using manual configuration
>> [of NetworkManager]
>
> True. But see below.
>
>> > they are reset to whatever NetworkManager thinks they should be.
>>
>> It's NOT NetworkManager. It's dhclient. NM has nothing to do with your
>> DHCP settings, it _only_ triggers the execution of dhclient.
>
> Well, it may be more semantics, but dhclient, apart from being the
> *source* of (some of) the details, certainly has nothing to do with
> storing them in any configuration files. NetworkManager, on the other
> hand, does.

Yes, dhclient does and no, NM doesn't.

Here's the sequence:

- NM starts dhclient.
- dhclient asks for DHCP settings
- DHCP server sends, amongs other things, the domain server address
- dhclient appends/prepends your hard-coded config values to the search list
- the dhclient "hooks" write resolv.conf

> It seems reasonable to say that it was NetworkManager
> resetting the details I was seeing in its dialogue boxes.

Those aren't even NetworkManager's dialog boxes! When you select "manual
configuration" in NM, it takes you _out_ of NM.

> So, just to be bloody-minded, I just went and added a domain to the
> search list in the Network manager dialogue again. It had no effect
> on /etc/network/interfaces at all.

OK, I don't know where that is saved, BUT IT"S NOTHING TO DO WITH NETWORK
MANAGER! The application is "kcmshell kcm_knetworkconfmodule" - it's
interesting to see that if you run that in a terminal, it shows an XML
config.

> BUT: The new search list *did* get written into /etc/resolv.conf! Which
> means (just to confuse the issue totally) - that it dang well should
> have worked when I did it the first time.

And THAT is dhclient. And yet again, I point out to you that if you have an
NM managed interface, "networking restart" won't/can't and still shouldn't
affect it.
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:02 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default NetworkManager

Karl Auer wrote:

> On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 15:04 -0300, Derek Broughton wrote:
>> > It should not have been necessary to restart NM, because as you
>> > yourself said, it just uses whatever comes back from DHCP. Restarting
>> > networking should have done the trick.
>>
>> You're not paying attention.
>
> Don't be insulting.

You're right, I was frustrated by your inability to see what's clear to me.
Sorry.

>> > The interface concerned was not in /etc/network/interfaces.
>> So, you need to do "/etc/dbus-1/event.d/25NetworkManager restart".
>
> To restart NetworkManager, yes. To cause new nameserver info to be
> retrieved from the DHCP server? I'm still not sure that's needed (though
> it would certainly work).

Well, yes, there are subtler ways - dhclient can do a renew - but the NM
restart is the equivalent to what you were trying to do with "networking
restart"

> I think just getting NetworkManager to reconnect would have have done
> the trick. That is, left-click

Right-click?

> on the NetworkManager applet, then select
> the same network as it already has. That makes it disconnect and
> reconnect, and it then picks up any changes made on the DHCP server.

Right, again.
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Old 10-06-2008, 02:07 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default NetworkManager

Charlie Kravetz wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:05:17 +1000
> Karl Auer <kauer@biplane.com.au> wrote:
>
>> In general, NetworkManager works pretty well for m. It swaps
>> automagically from my wired network to my wireless network and back, I
>> can select from the various networks available, and it handles WPA with
>> great aplomb.
>>
>> BUT: I need to set up a domain search list. I have
>> edited /etc/dhcp3/dhclient.conf accordingly, and it is completely
>> ignored.
>>
>> I tried selecting "manual configuration" and entering extra domains in
>> the search list on the "DNS" tab, but NetworkManager just sets them back
>> to what they were before.
>>
>> As far as I can tell, Network Manager uses whatever the DHCP server
>> sends - and that's it. I don't want to alter what the DHCP server sends,
>> I want to override it locally.
>>
>> Anyone know how to do that?
>
> There are several fixes to Network Manager in progress to make it
> recognize your /etc/network/interfaces file. I think this is included
> in one of them.
>
> Take a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/256054 for some of this

Actually, as near as I can tell, that's about making sure that NM _ignores_
your /etc/network/interfaces (as it has ever since it was first introduced)
not recognizing them.
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Old 10-06-2008, 07:33 PM
NoOp
 
Default NetworkManager

On 10/06/2008 12:57 AM, Karl Auer wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-10-04 at 12:49 +0100, (``-_-) -- Fernando wrote:
>> There is a PPA for Hardy, if you wanna try it:
>> deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/network-manager/ubuntu hardy main
>
> What is a PPA and what can I do with it? At the URL mentioned there are
> only descriptions of things (as far as I can tell).
>
> Regards, K.
>
>

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ubuntu+%2Bppa&btnG=Search
https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas
https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA

http://www.ubuntu.com/news/launchpad-ppa

For example; KDE 4 is on PPA:
<https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+ppas?name_filter=kde>
rather than in a standard Ubuntu archive because it is still very much
in the 'early testing' stage & isn't quite ready for the regular Ubuntu
respositories.



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Old 10-06-2008, 11:31 PM
Karl Auer
 
Default NetworkManager

On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 10:57 -0300, Derek Broughton wrote:
> > Well, it may be more semantics, but dhclient, apart from being the
> > *source* of (some of) the details, certainly has nothing to do with
> > storing them in any configuration files. NetworkManager, on the other
> > hand, does.
>
> Yes, dhclient does and no, NM doesn't.

The truth is out there!

This is what I did: Left-click on NM, select "manual config", add a
search domain, close. Result - resolv.conf has the new domain in it.
dhclient was not involved.

> Those aren't even NetworkManager's dialog boxes! When you select "manual
> configuration" in NM, it takes you _out_ of NM.

When I select an option in NetworkManager and it opens a dialogue called
"Network Settings", I reckon it's fair enough to call that "Network
Manager", but I take your point. Technically not NM.

> OK, I don't know where that is saved, BUT IT"S NOTHING TO DO WITH NETWORK
> MANAGER!

I do know where it's saved (at least the search domains) - it is saved
in /etc/resolv.conf. Try it.

> > BUT: The new search list *did* get written into /etc/resolv.conf!
>
> And THAT is dhclient.

No, it was NOT dhclient. dhclient had not yet been triggered. This was
done solely within the "Network Settings" dialogue, without requesting a
reconnect. When dhclient *did* get triggered, then it did overwrite the
file, as you describe. I.e., both the "Network Settings" dialogue AND
dhclient will modify resolv.conf.

> And yet again, I point out to you that if you have an
> NM managed interface, "networking restart" won't/can't and still shouldn't
> affect it.

No argument there. You're quite right, and I said so a couple of emails
ago :-)

Regards, K.

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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http://www.biplane.com.au/~kauer/ +61-428-957160 (mob)

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Old 10-07-2008, 03:05 AM
Derek Broughton
 
Default NetworkManager

Karl Auer wrote:

> On Mon, 2008-10-06 at 10:57 -0300, Derek Broughton wrote:
>> > Well, it may be more semantics, but dhclient, apart from being the
>> > *source* of (some of) the details, certainly has nothing to do with
>> > storing them in any configuration files. NetworkManager, on the other
>> > hand, does.
>>
>> Yes, dhclient does and no, NM doesn't.
>
> The truth is out there!
>
> This is what I did: Left-click on NM, select "manual config", add a
> search domain, close. Result - resolv.conf has the new domain in it.
> dhclient was not involved.

How do you know?
>
>> Those aren't even NetworkManager's dialog boxes! When you select "manual
>> configuration" in NM, it takes you _out_ of NM.
>
> When I select an option in NetworkManager and it opens a dialogue called
> "Network Settings", I reckon it's fair enough to call that "Network
> Manager", but I take your point. Technically not NM.
>
>> OK, I don't know where that is saved, BUT IT"S NOTHING TO DO WITH NETWORK
>> MANAGER!
>
> I do know where it's saved (at least the search domains) - it is saved
> in /etc/resolv.conf. Try it.

No, it isn't. /etc/resolv.conf is rewritten _completely_ every time
dhclient runs. It's a result, it's not the place the DNS config is saved.

>
>> > BUT: The new search list *did* get written into /etc/resolv.conf!
>>
>> And THAT is dhclient.
>
> No, it was NOT dhclient. dhclient had not yet been triggered. This was
> done solely within the "Network Settings" dialogue, without requesting a
> reconnect.

Even if the network setting control module puts the domain there itself,
that's not where the setting is saved that the control module reads,
because dhclient is going to overwrite it.
--
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Erik Christiansen
 
Default NetworkManager

On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 10:31:25AM +1100, Karl Auer wrote:
>
> I do know where it's saved (at least the search domains) - it is saved
> in /etc/resolv.conf. Try it.
>
> > > BUT: The new search list *did* get written into /etc/resolv.conf!
> >

Amen, hallelujah. Had that happen here, when I installed 7.10. It took
quite a few minutes to find that /etc/resolv.conf had crap in it, and a
manual edit was overwritten on each reboot.

Finding that networkmanager was the source of the corruption, the best
fix _for me_ was: sudo apt-get remove --purge network-manager

Any gui gumpf that does not intrinsically and fully automatically
respect manual entries in config files just has to go, I figure.

Erik

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Hi,

Just a comment,


> > Third, does anyone know which, if either, of the Premium's cameras work?
>
> In our experience, the webcam does not work, even in 2.6.27; it's
> likely it's very similar to existing cameras, but we'd need some kernel
> love to get it to work. Same for the atheros wifi chip.
>
>
I've tried Ubuntu Mobile on a Samsung Q1 (non Ultra) with an Atheros wifi
module and it seemed to work. Wasn't it supposed to do it? Which are the
problems with it? AFAIK, Madwifi drivers are added in Ubuntu Mobile images.


Regards,
Javi

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<div dir="ltr">Hi,<br><br>Just a comment,<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="Ih2E3d">
<br>
&gt; Third, does anyone know which, if either, of the Premium's cameras work?<br>
<br>
</div>&nbsp;In our experience, the webcam does not work, even in 2.6.27; it's<br>
&nbsp;likely it's very similar to existing cameras, but we'd need some kernel<br>
&nbsp;love to get it to work. &nbsp;Same for the atheros wifi chip.<br><br></blockquote></div><br>I've tried Ubuntu Mobile on a Samsung Q1 (non Ultra) with an Atheros wifi module and it seemed to work. Wasn't it supposed to do it? Which are the problems with it? AFAIK, Madwifi drivers are added in Ubuntu Mobile images.<br>
<br><br>Regards,<br>Javi<br></div>

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Old 10-07-2008, 01:36 PM
Karl Auer
 
Default NetworkManager

On Tue, 2008-10-07 at 00:05 -0300, Derek Broughton wrote:
> > search domain, close. Result - resolv.conf has the new domain in it.
> > dhclient was not involved.
>
> How do you know?

Because the process ID of dhclient did not change as it does if
NetworkManager runs it, and because I looked at /sbin/dhclient-script.

> > I do know where it's saved (at least the search domains) - it is saved
> > in /etc/resolv.conf. Try it.
>
> No, it isn't. /etc/resolv.conf is rewritten _completely_ every time
> dhclient runs. It's a result, it's not the place the DNS config is saved.

Sorry, bad word to use, "saved". I don't know where Network Manager
stores it's version of reality. What I do know is that if you choose
"manual configuration" and change the search domains, they will be
written into /etc/resolve.conf. Right under the message saying the file
was modified by Network Manager...

NetworkManager may well also store that information elsewhere... but I
really don't think it does. It doesn't need to store it anywhere else,
and it's not a bad design to use the relevant system files directly.
Host info in/etc/hosts, nameserver info in /etc/resolv.conf. But where
does it store the interface info? Ah, now that's a mystery. We know it
looks at /etc/network/interfaces to work out what it should NOT do.

> Even if the network setting control module puts the domain there itself,
> that's not where the setting is saved that the control module reads,
> because dhclient is going to overwrite it.

The "network setting control module" DOES get the information
from /etc/resolv.conf. You can test this very easily by modifying
resolv.conf and doing a "manual configuration" - your changes will be
visible in the dialogue. And if you change those details in the
dialogue, they will be written back to /etc/resolv.conf.

And the DHCP client does indeed overwrite /etc/resolv.conf, but that's
not the whole story, I think. Looking at /sbin/dhclient-script, it seems
the DHCP client only concerns itself with the nameservers. That means
that NetworkManager is grabbing the search domains from somewhere and
adding them to resolv.conf. About the only place it could be getting the
search domain information is from the DHCP client leases file. So again,
I don't think it needs any separate stored copy of the information.

We've moved some distance from my original question, but learned a lot
along the way :-)

Regards, K.

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Old 10-07-2008, 02:58 PM
Derek Broughton
 
Default NetworkManager

Erik Christiansen wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 07, 2008 at 10:31:25AM +1100, Karl Auer wrote:
>>
>> I do know where it's saved (at least the search domains) - it is saved
>> in /etc/resolv.conf. Try it.
>>
>> > > BUT: The new search list *did* get written into /etc/resolv.conf!
>> >
>
> Amen, hallelujah. Had that happen here, when I installed 7.10. It took
> quite a few minutes to find that /etc/resolv.conf had crap in it, and a
> manual edit was overwritten on each reboot.
>
> Finding that networkmanager was the source of the corruption, the best
> fix _for me_ was: sudo apt-get remove --purge network-manager

LOL. You didn't get a thing out of this thread, did you? Network Manager
NEVER writes to /etc/resolv.conf.
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