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Old 10-11-2012, 05:39 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/10/2012 8:20 PM, Frantisek Hanzlik wrote:

It was discused here somtimes about 27.-28.8., You can search 'dead
keyboard' in list archive. It is probably some X server problem.


Frantisek:

Thanks for info. I've found the post and will check it out once I have
coffee in the morning (my brain turned off about an hour ago)


Paul
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Old 10-11-2012, 05:44 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/10/2012 10:36 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

OK.... I should have pointed out that I am speculating you *may* have a wonky wire or connection which results in a momentary disconnect. I've had several of these over they years. All caused by cats either gnawing on cables or ripping them out while playing a game of tag. :-) :-)


Ed:

Actually, I am speculating that it may be something more interesting.
4-5 years ago, I got a newer model of my favorite keyboard and it would
not work with Fedora (either FC5 or F9). I don't have cats to gnaw on
them and the only tag that get played near the computer is writing html.


The keyboard I like is *old* .. as in 2002. Seeing another keyboard
behave the same is important.


For what it is worth, the next test will be a serious couple of long
days on one of my other F16 machines with the keyboard in question.
Then, I convert that box to F17 and if I see the problem, your sentence
of X server means alot more to me (or at least in my limited sense of
vision)


Paul

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Old 10-11-2012, 03:46 PM
Tim
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 19:10 -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> I was wondering about the PS2 keyboard, but my memory told me that you
> had to reboot if it came unplugged. Guess that must be
> Windows-specific.

As far as I know, yes, it was a Windows problem that some couldn't
handle a keyboard being unplugged/replugged. Though, I recall that was
a problem on the old large 5-pin DIN connected keyboards, not the PS/2
keyboards. Any Windows PC that I've hot-plugged the PS/2 keyboard,
worked. Perhaps there was a moment or two of thumb twiddling as Windows
did the dopey hardware detection thing, but it'd work.

However, the PS/2 keyboard system wasn't designed for hot-plugging, and
it was possible to wreck the input circuitry, if the particular
manufacturer hadn't taken into account that users may try hot-plugging.

On top of that, the plugs are notoriously fragile. Pins got bent and
broken very easily, when people didn't plug them in straight. And the
usual trick of rotating the plug around trying to line the pins up with
the socket holes, instead of actually using your eyes, was very
destructive to the plug.

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[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
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Old 10-12-2012, 03:38 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/10/2012 10:44 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
==

The keyboard knows I am getting good help at trying to solve this ... it
behaved like a champ today. If it doesn't act up through the beginning
of next week, I will consider that it is a POM issue caused by something
in my install F17 process that worked itself out.


Once again, thanks to everyone for the suggestions ... I've got them
ready and waiting when it happens next

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Old 10-13-2012, 02:26 AM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/10/2012 10:28 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:

On 10/10/2012 6:35 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote:

When this happens, can you try holding down the shift key for say
15-20seconds? Do you see a notice then about 'slow keys' being disabled
and it starts working again?

kevin



Kevin:

[...]

This test will be the first I will try when I start again tomorrow.

Paul



It behaved all day yesterday and I was into my 7th hour today when,
finally, it happened again. Top shows no cpu hogging (near idle as far
as I can see) and /var/log/messages doesn't report anything.


I ran your test and sat on the Shift Key for over a minute. No notices.

Figuring that was that, I ssh-ed into the machine to salvage what I was
doing before killing the session. That took about 20 minutes and,
somewhere around the 15th minute when I was mousing in one of the dead
shells to scroll my history to make sure I had got everything, I
accidentally brushed a key and, lo and behold, the keyboard was alive.
Everything that had been typed while testing its dead-ness was not
there, so all the input was not buffered waiting to be processed (as
though the characters never made it to the computer).


So now I have to consider that "something" (be it hardware or software)
is causing the keyboard to not exist to the computer for an unknown
period of time. On one of the earlier tests, I waited about 10 minutes
before killing and hadn't gotten the keyboard back by then.


I will try Ed's idea of a different keyboard, but I do want to ask if
this new "experiment result" indicates additional things to consider in
trying to fix it.


Thanks,
Paul

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Old 10-13-2012, 01:25 PM
Tim
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On Fri, 2012-10-12 at 19:26 -0700, Paul Allen Newell wrote:
> somewhere around the 15th minute when I was mousing in one of the dead
> shells to scroll my history to make sure I had got everything, I
> accidentally brushed a key and, lo and behold, the keyboard was
> alive.

Does sound suspiciously like a broken keyboard.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 10-13-2012, 06:56 PM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/13/2012 6:25 AM, Tim wrote:

Does sound suspiciously like a broken keyboard.



Tim:

I'll find out that one when I rotate keyboardsper Ed's suggestion. My
gut doesn't feel like its the keyboard given the problem showed up only
when I installed that machine with F17, but I am suspect of the computer
itself. I'm going to bring a second machine up on F17 to see what happens.


For the record, with the exception of the keyboard, the F17 install was
one of the easiest "moving to the new Fedoras" I've had (Xfce)


Paul
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:20 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/13/2012 11:56 AM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:



I'll find out that one when I rotate keyboardsper Ed's suggestion. My
gut doesn't feel like its the keyboard given the problem showed up only
when I installed that machine with F17, but I am suspect of the computer
itself. I'm going to bring a second machine up on F17 to see what happens.


An excellent idea. Then, once you find that the new machine works
fine[1] you can swap keyboards and see if the issue follows the
keyboard. Just remember, however, if one of them's PS2 and the other's
USB, that in itself might be significant.


[1]F17 would never have gotten out of beta with such a big show-stopper bug.
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:24 PM
Paul Allen Newell
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/13/2012 12:20 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:


An excellent idea. Then, once you find that the new machine works
fine[1] you can swap keyboards and see if the issue follows the
keyboard. Just remember, however, if one of them's PS2 and the
other's USB, that in itself might be significant.


[1]F17 would never have gotten out of beta with such a big
show-stopper bug.


Joe:

All keyboards and all computers are PS2, so I won't have that variable.
And I am already leaning to the problem being on my end, not F17's, now
that I saw the keyboard "rise from the dead" after 10-15 minutes.


Paul
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Old 10-13-2012, 07:40 PM
Joe Zeff
 
Default keyboard failure that doesn't seem to be hardware

On 10/13/2012 12:24 PM, Paul Allen Newell wrote:


All keyboards and all computers are PS2, so I won't have that variable.
And I am already leaning to the problem being on my end, not F17's, now
that I saw the keyboard "rise from the dead" after 10-15 minutes.


Good! As you say, that's one less possible issue. I hadn't known that
(you may have mentioned it before, but if so, I'd forgotten.) Depending
on what this test shows, you might want to get a PS2/USB adapter and see
if it makes any difference. Then, if it's the port that's unreliable,
you don't need to buy a new keyboard.

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