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-   -   Slightly OT about urls (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-user/702984-slightly-ot-about-urls.html)

Roger 09-11-2012 11:34 PM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On the server we have a redirection in index.php so that calling url
www.domain.org.au in browser displays www.domain.org.au/directory.

Is there any way to get the url to not display the /directory, just the url?

thanks
Roger


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Cameron Simpson 09-12-2012 03:49 AM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On 12Sep2012 09:34, Roger <arelem@bigpond.com> wrote:
| On the server we have a redirection in index.php so that calling url
| www.domain.org.au in browser displays www.domain.org.au/directory.
| Is there any way to get the url to not display the /directory, just the url?

I think you need to be less vague.
A redirection in what, from what, to what?
What are the complete URLs used in all stages?

I really can't figure out what you mean here.
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Bruno Wolff III 09-12-2012 04:45 AM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 09:34:49 +1000,
Roger <arelem@bigpond.com> wrote:
On the server we have a redirection in index.php so that calling url
www.domain.org.au in browser displays www.domain.org.au/directory.

Is there any way to get the url to not display the /directory, just the url?


If you are talking about mod_rewrite for apache, then I believe there is
a way to do internal redirects that don't ask the browser to retrieve
another url. 301 and 302 responses will ask the browser to look up another
url. When the browser displays the page for the new url it also displays
the url for that page. You shouldn't be able to change that.

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Tim 09-12-2012 01:37 PM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 09:34 +1000, Roger wrote:
> On the server we have a redirection in index.php so that calling url
> www.domain.org.au in browser displays www.domain.org.au/directory.
> Is there any way to get the url to not display the /directory, just
> the url?

That's generally a bad idea, because you destroy navigation. The user
cannot see where they are, as they move through a site, and get rapidly
annoyed with websites that don't work sensibly. And the browser can't
navigate back and forth, when the URI stays the same.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Roger 09-13-2012 12:44 AM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On 09/12/2012 11:37 PM, Tim wrote:

On Wed, 2012-09-12 at 09:34 +1000, Roger wrote:

On the server we have a redirection in index.php so that calling url
www.domain.org.au in browser displays www.domain.org.au/directory.
Is there any way to get the url to not display the /directory, just
the url?

That's generally a bad idea, because you destroy navigation. The user
cannot see where they are, as they move through a site, and get rapidly
annoyed with websites that don't work sensibly. And the browser can't
navigate back and forth, when the URI stays the same.

In this particular case it would be handy if the url remained constant.
All the viewer needs to know is the base url. I'm thinking that
subdirectory displays could be irrelevant.

Maybe I'm completely wrong here. I'm no expert in urls and navigation.

I would have thought that the user/viewer knows exactly where they are
because they have typed in an easily recognisable base url and selected
from a small menu list.
Resultant page/s tell them what they are viewing and where to go next.
Basically all a browser has to do is change to the selected menu item.
Maybe it won't do that if the base url is static, I don't know.


I'm uncertain that urls actually matter to the viewer, I browse hundreds
of sites/pages over a year and note that many become acutely complex,
excessively large and don't fit in the display field. These are
definitely an annoyance, a waste of space and in such cases, of meaning
only to the site developer. I could not envisage a user/viewer typing in
a url with several subdirectories and the last so convoluted and complex
that proficient typist would have difficulty.


I concede that the base url idea may not work on many sites where
complex, convoluted, enormous, poorly considered menus on both sides of
the page are the norm.

Thanks anyway
Roger




Roger
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Tim 09-13-2012 12:27 PM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On Thu, 2012-09-13 at 10:44 +1000, Roger wrote:
> In this particular case it would be handy if the url remained
> constant. All the viewer needs to know is the base url. I'm thinking
> that subdirectory displays could be irrelevant.
> Maybe I'm completely wrong here. I'm no expert in urls and navigation.

Generally speaking, and being generous with the paintbrush, when a
designer thinks that "all the user needs to know is ..." there will be
something wrong with the assumption.

> I would have thought that the user/viewer knows exactly where they are
> because they have typed in an easily recognisable base url and
> selected from a small menu list.

And then... After clicking here and there, trying to see where they
are, trying to cope with a website that keeps loading the same page yet
shouldn't be, wanting to bookmark a page *within* the site, or go
directly to a page within the site without clicking through several
other pages in sequence... The list goes on.

Frame based sites had the same "designed by bastards incorporated"
problem (a pseudo-company in a comedy show, for anything that was a pain
to use, and we've all experienced something like that, that we could
call it that). All you ever saw, with framed sites, was www.example.com
in the address bar, no matter where you were in the site.

The navigation bar, or address gadget, or whatever you want to call it,
is an essential part of the browser. Take that away, and it's like
taking away all the floor numbers outside the lifts in a multi-story
building, and claiming that the patron really doesn't need to know what
floor they're on. That only holds true for two conditions: Them
entering, visiting one floor, then exiting. Them entering, visiting a
floor, and going back to the lobby between every floor that they visit.

It's a design error.

> I'm uncertain that urls actually matter to the viewer,

They do.

> I browse hundreds of sites/pages over a year and note that many become
> acutely complex, excessively large and don't fit in the display field.

That's a different design error. But, despite that, they'll be unique
addresses per page.

Try making every page have the same address, and you start breaking the
ability of the browser to hit the back-page button, and go back to the
prior page (or pages, for multiple presses), then go (correctly) forward
again.

I'm trying to advise you not to paint yourself into a corner.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
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Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Roger 09-13-2012 11:07 PM

Slightly OT about urls
 
Try making every page have the same address, and you start breaking the
ability of the browser to hit the back-page button, and go back to the
prior page (or pages, for multiple presses), then go (correctly) forward
again. I'm trying to advise you not to paint yourself into a corner.

thank you
Point taken with gratitude
Roger
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"Eddie G. O'Connor Jr." 09-15-2012 07:11 PM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On 09/13/2012 08:27 AM, Tim wrote:

On Thu, 2012-09-13 at 10:44 +1000, Roger wrote:

In this particular case it would be handy if the url remained
constant. All the viewer needs to know is the base url. I'm thinking
that subdirectory displays could be irrelevant.
Maybe I'm completely wrong here. I'm no expert in urls and navigation.

Generally speaking, and being generous with the paintbrush, when a
designer thinks that "all the user needs to know is ..." there will be
something wrong with the assumption.


I would have thought that the user/viewer knows exactly where they are
because they have typed in an easily recognisable base url and
selected from a small menu list.

And then... After clicking here and there, trying to see where they
are, trying to cope with a website that keeps loading the same page yet
shouldn't be, wanting to bookmark a page *within* the site, or go
directly to a page within the site without clicking through several
other pages in sequence... The list goes on.

Frame based sites had the same "designed by bastards incorporated"
problem (a pseudo-company in a comedy show, for anything that was a pain
to use, and we've all experienced something like that, that we could
call it that). All you ever saw, with framed sites, was www.example.com
in the address bar, no matter where you were in the site.

The navigation bar, or address gadget, or whatever you want to call it,
is an essential part of the browser. Take that away, and it's like
taking away all the floor numbers outside the lifts in a multi-story
building, and claiming that the patron really doesn't need to know what
floor they're on. That only holds true for two conditions: Them
entering, visiting one floor, then exiting. Them entering, visiting a
floor, and going back to the lobby between every floor that they visit.

It's a design error.


I'm uncertain that urls actually matter to the viewer,

They do.


I browse hundreds of sites/pages over a year and note that many become
acutely complex, excessively large and don't fit in the display field.

That's a different design error. But, despite that, they'll be unique
addresses per page.

Try making every page have the same address, and you start breaking the
ability of the browser to hit the back-page button, and go back to the
prior page (or pages, for multiple presses), then go (correctly) forward
again.

I'm trying to advise you not to paint yourself into a corner.

This all sounds so confusing! But I think I've actally been to a site
like that once! It was "based" out of China....and no matter WHAT link
you clicked on, you'd go to a separate page that had NO way to hit the
"Back" button on your browser!.....How is that even POSSIBLE!?



EGO II
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Joe Zeff 09-15-2012 07:29 PM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On 09/15/2012 12:11 PM, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote:

This all sounds so confusing! But I think I've actally been to a site
like that once! It was "based" out of China....and no matter WHAT link
you clicked on, you'd go to a separate page that had NO way to hit the
"Back" button on your browser!.....How is that even POSSIBLE!?


Back in the Bad Old Days, I had a page on my site that claimed to be a
dead end on the Internet. There were no links on it, hitting the Back
button just reloaded it and your history was blank.


How did I do it? Easy: the link to it went through eleven redirects
with blank names, because in those days your history only showed your
last ten pages. The Back button just reloaded a redirect, and clicking
on any of the blank lines in your history just lead back to the dead
end. Then, mirable dictu, Intersnot Exploder Did The Right Thing so
that using the Back button skipped over any redirects, and about a year
later, Nutscrape copied them and the page stopped working. Still, it
was amusing while it lasted.


No, that probably doesn't answer your question, but I thought you might
find it interesting. Besides, it's my birthday today so you have to
humor me on things like this even if you don't want to. How old am I?
Well, if you write out my new age in hex, I appear to be the same age as
Jack Benny.

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"Eddie G. O'Connor Jr." 09-16-2012 04:45 PM

Slightly OT about urls
 
On 09/15/2012 03:29 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 09/15/2012 12:11 PM, Eddie G. O'Connor Jr. wrote:

This all sounds so confusing! But I think I've actally been to a site
like that once! It was "based" out of China....and no matter WHAT link
you clicked on, you'd go to a separate page that had NO way to hit the
"Back" button on your browser!.....How is that even POSSIBLE!?


Back in the Bad Old Days, I had a page on my site that claimed to be a
dead end on the Internet. There were no links on it, hitting the Back
button just reloaded it and your history was blank.


How did I do it? Easy: the link to it went through eleven redirects
with blank names, because in those days your history only showed your
last ten pages. The Back button just reloaded a redirect, and
clicking on any of the blank lines in your history just lead back to
the dead end. Then, mirable dictu, Intersnot Exploder Did The Right
Thing so that using the Back button skipped over any redirects, and
about a year later, Nutscrape copied them and the page stopped
working. Still, it was amusing while it lasted.


No, that probably doesn't answer your question, but I thought you
might find it interesting. Besides, it's my birthday today so you
have to humor me on things like this even if you don't want to. How
old am I? Well, if you write out my new age in hex, I appear to be the
same age as Jack Benny.
Well then first things first Happy Birthday To You Sir!....I apologize
for responding so late to this, but I've been on a whirlwind of a month
so far,...car repairs....car rental....the birthday of my
Now-Twelve-Year-Old-Son-Who's-Not-A-Kid-Anymore-So-I-Should-Treat-Him-More-Like-A-Teen!
As for the web page redirecting thing, out of my own curious mind I'm
thinking if that ability has been done away with permanently.....how
many times do I go to a web-site and then something else
appears?....wouldn't think this kind of thing would still be
around.....Enjoy your Birthday.......Jack Benny huh?.....I actually
remember watching that show as a kid....and I was born in the 70's!...LoL!



EGO II
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