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Old 09-06-2012, 06:31 PM
David Lehman
 
Default new ui equivalent for (de)selecting packages, new ui column confusion

On Thu, 2012-09-06 at 12:21 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote:
> With the previous UI, I was able to deselect specific packages I don't use. Big ones, like Libreoffice. I'm not seeing a way to do this with the new ui. Is it possible? Will it be possible (either in F18 or F19)?

This will be possible, but only via kickstart.

>
> Further, in F18-TC6 I'm still finding the "Software Selection" UI confusing due to the disconnect between the left and right side columns providing apparently bogus feedback to the user. For example:
>
> When I choose "Gnome Desktop" on the left, the right side "Choose your add-ons" nothing is selected. If I take the add-ons column descriptions seriously, the unchecked add-on "Applications for the GNOME Desktop: A set of commonly used applications for the GNOME Desktop" not being checked tells me I'm not going to get commonly used applications unless I check that add-on manually.
>
> That's merely confusing, but then there are the impossible to believe ones. Add-ons: GNOME Desktop Environment, Graphical Internet, and Printing Support are not checked. The implication is none of these things will be installed, which can't be true.
>
> So will there eventually be a visual tie-in between chosen environment and the add-ons that environment will include? i.e. some of those add-ons will be automatically checked in the UI?

Almost certainly.

>
> There also appears to be no way to get a listing of what applications or packages those add-ons include. Will this eventually be possible?

No.

David

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Old 09-06-2012, 06:35 PM
Chris Lumens
 
Default new ui equivalent for (de)selecting packages, new ui column confusion

> With the previous UI, I was able to deselect specific packages I don't
> use. Big ones, like Libreoffice. I'm not seeing a way to do this with
> the new ui. Is it possible? Will it be possible (either in F18 or
> F19)?

No, there's no package-specific UI planned. It was always lies anyway.
You could select and deselect what packages you chose, but you could
still end up with them if dependencies required them. Of course you
could still do package-level selections with kickstart if you so choose.

> Further, in F18-TC6 I'm still finding the "Software Selection" UI
> confusing due to the disconnect between the left and right side
> columns providing apparently bogus feedback to the user. For example:

The left and right sides are directly tied together via the data
provided by comps.

> When I choose "Gnome Desktop" on the left, the right side "Choose your
> add-ons" nothing is selected. If I take the add-ons column
> descriptions seriously, the unchecked add-on "Applications for the
> GNOME Desktop: A set of commonly used applications for the GNOME
> Desktop" not being checked tells me I'm not going to get commonly used
> applications unless I check that add-on manually.

The left side ("Environment") has groups that are automatically selected
as part of the environment, and optional groups that are not but are
listed on the right side. If you do not select something on the right
side, you're not going to get it.

> That's merely confusing, but then there are the impossible to believe
> ones. Add-ons: GNOME Desktop Environment, Graphical Internet, and
> Printing Support are not checked. The implication is none of these
> things will be installed, which can't be true.

This seems like more of a display bug than anything.

> So will there eventually be a visual tie-in between chosen environment
> and the add-ons that environment will include? i.e. some of those
> add-ons will be automatically checked in the UI?

Please see the comps data to tell what the intention is here.

> There also appears to be no way to get a listing of what applications
> or packages those add-ons include. Will this eventually be possible?

Like I said, we're not doing a package-specific UI.

- Chris

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Old 09-06-2012, 06:39 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default new ui equivalent for (de)selecting packages, new ui column confusion

Chris Murphy (lists@colorremedies.com) said:
> Further, in F18-TC6 I'm still finding the "Software Selection" UI confusing due to the
> disconnect between the left and right side columns providing apparently bogus feedback
> to the user. For example:
>
> When I choose "Gnome Desktop" on the left, the right side "Choose your add-ons" nothing
> is selected. If I take the add-ons column descriptions seriously, the unchecked add-on
> "Applications for the GNOME Desktop: A set of commonly used applications for the GNOME
> Desktop" not being checked tells me I'm not going to get commonly used applications
> unless I check that add-on manually.
>
> That's merely confusing, but then there are the impossible to believe ones. Add-ons:
> GNOME Desktop Environment, Graphical Internet, and Printing Support are not checked.
> The implication is none of these things will be installed, which can't be true.

You're right, it's not. The wording of some of the descriptions, and the
list of add-ons there is still in a bit of flux.

Bill

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Old 09-06-2012, 06:40 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default new ui equivalent for (de)selecting packages, new ui column confusion

Bill Nottingham (notting@redhat.com) said:
> Chris Murphy (lists@colorremedies.com) said:
> > Further, in F18-TC6 I'm still finding the "Software Selection" UI confusing due to the
> > disconnect between the left and right side columns providing apparently bogus feedback
> > to the user. For example:
> >
> > When I choose "Gnome Desktop" on the left, the right side "Choose your add-ons" nothing
> > is selected. If I take the add-ons column descriptions seriously, the unchecked add-on
> > "Applications for the GNOME Desktop: A set of commonly used applications for the GNOME
> > Desktop" not being checked tells me I'm not going to get commonly used applications
> > unless I check that add-on manually.
> >
> > That's merely confusing, but then there are the impossible to believe ones. Add-ons:
> > GNOME Desktop Environment, Graphical Internet, and Printing Support are not checked.
> > The implication is none of these things will be installed, which can't be true.
>
> You're right, it's not. The wording of some of the descriptions, and the
> list of add-ons there is still in a bit of flux.

Or, to be completely 100% clear:

The stuff on the left side is correct, intentional, and should always
install correctly. There are a number of add-ons still being shown on the
right that shouldn't be shown, and they are likely confusing the issue.

Bill

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Old 09-07-2012, 05:05 AM
Petr Schindler
 
Default new ui equivalent for (de)selecting packages, new ui column confusion

On Čt, 2012-09-06 at 14:35 -0400, Chris Lumens wrote:
> > With the previous UI, I was able to deselect specific packages I don't
> > use. Big ones, like Libreoffice. I'm not seeing a way to do this with
> > the new ui. Is it possible? Will it be possible (either in F18 or
> > F19)?
>
> No, there's no package-specific UI planned. It was always lies anyway.
> You could select and deselect what packages you chose, but you could
> still end up with them if dependencies required them. Of course you
> could still do package-level selections with kickstart if you so choose.

What is bad on getting some more packages as dependencies? If I don't
want some package, but it is installed because of dependency for some
package that I want - that is correct behavior. And what is a difference
now??? I check Gnome desktop on the left side and nothing on the right
side. When I click back and then again on the Software selection, there
are checked some 'add-ons' because of dependencies. So only difference
is, that I probably get more packages then with the old ui which I
didn't check (because the whole group is installed instead of just one
package). The only difference is, that I can check which packages are
selected before the installation (but it doesn't help me a lot, because
it's not clear which packages are in those groups).

Because of some group of people, which didn't get that some packages are
needed for dependencies you make things less usable for the others
(maybe bigger group)?

It's late to complain now, I know So I'm looking forward to any
working software selection. GL

> > Further, in F18-TC6 I'm still finding the "Software Selection" UI
> > confusing due to the disconnect between the left and right side
> > columns providing apparently bogus feedback to the user. For example:
>
> The left and right sides are directly tied together via the data
> provided by comps.
>
> > When I choose "Gnome Desktop" on the left, the right side "Choose your
> > add-ons" nothing is selected. If I take the add-ons column
> > descriptions seriously, the unchecked add-on "Applications for the
> > GNOME Desktop: A set of commonly used applications for the GNOME
> > Desktop" not being checked tells me I'm not going to get commonly used
> > applications unless I check that add-on manually.
>
> The left side ("Environment") has groups that are automatically selected
> as part of the environment, and optional groups that are not but are
> listed on the right side. If you do not select something on the right
> side, you're not going to get it.

This is not true now. When I choose Gnome Desktop on the right side and
no 'add-on' I will get some add-ons after dependency check. Is this
going to be changed?

> > That's merely confusing, but then there are the impossible to believe
> > ones. Add-ons: GNOME Desktop Environment, Graphical Internet, and
> > Printing Support are not checked. The implication is none of these
> > things will be installed, which can't be true.
>
> This seems like more of a display bug than anything.

Yes, it is bug, because now (in Alpha TC6) when you choose Gnome Desktop
and no add-on you won't get gnome after installation. (maybe problems in
comps?)

> > So will there eventually be a visual tie-in between chosen environment
> > and the add-ons that environment will include? i.e. some of those
> > add-ons will be automatically checked in the UI?
>
> Please see the comps data to tell what the intention is here.
>
> > There also appears to be no way to get a listing of what applications
> > or packages those add-ons include. Will this eventually be possible?
>
> Like I said, we're not doing a package-specific UI.
>
> - Chris

Regards
Petr Schindler

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Old 09-07-2012, 06:17 PM
Bill Nottingham
 
Default new ui equivalent for (de)selecting packages, new ui column confusion

Chris Murphy (lists@colorremedies.com) said:
>
> On Sep 6, 2012, at 11:05 PM, Petr Schindler wrote:
>
> > Yes, it is bug, because now (in Alpha TC6) when you choose Gnome Desktop
> > and no add-on you won't get gnome after installation. (maybe problems in
> > comps?)
>
> This is not what I experienced. When I choose Gnome Desktop in the left column, and no add-ons are checked in the right column, I do get Gnome installed and it functions on reboot. Likewise I can print. And I have Firefox and email, even though the add-on for Graphical Internet and Printing were not checked.

That's expected - graphical internet & printing will likely go away soon.

Essentially, the right pane is populated by 1) explicit options of the
choice on the left 2) any remaining user-visible groups. At the moment,
way too many groups are user-visible, but I need to check some spin
kickstart changes before flipping them.

Bill

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