On Fri, 2012-08-03 at 14:36 +0100, Alan Cox wrote:
> In some cases - by code volume the FSF is not the biggest contributor,
> even when you include (as they like to) all the third party code they
> took and labelled GNU. In the case of the largest and most common
> Linux
> distribution today there is almost no GNU code in it: Android.

I hope this isn't a foolish question; I'm not familiar with Android
development. Is the standard development suite for Android based on
gcc?


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I call it Linux/Gnu.
Without the kernel it wouldn't even boot.
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Clive



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Why GNU/Linux? Why not GNU Linux // GNU && Linux // GNU-Linux etc?*
GNU/Linux implies either GNU or Linux, right?



Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 13:13:59 +0100
Subject: Re: Linux or GNU/Linux
From: discordianuk@gmail.com
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org

I call it Linux/Gnu.
Without the kernel it wouldn't even boot.
--
Clive


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> in my opinion Linux couldn't and still cannot exist without certain
> parts of gnu project including software and licenses, especially gcc,
> glibc, gpl and lgpl. and that's true for android too, unless it uses
> kernel header's without gpl licensing instead of glibc.

At the time Linux was created the were several other suitable compilers,
the original Linux C library was not glibc and the original kernel
license was not GPL. UZI didn't use any GNU tools in its base either, nor
OMU. So not only was it possible, it had been done.

Android doesn't use glibc either.

The FSF did some very important things - codifying what was already
practise, figuring out how to stop abuse of that practise and having a
grand vision of what all the pieces could mean.

Alan
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Why GNU/Linux? Why not GNU Linux // GNU && Linux // GNU-Linux etc?*
GNU/Linux implies either GNU or Linux, right?



Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 13:13:59 +0100
Subject: Re: Linux or GNU/Linux
From: discordianuk@gmail.com
To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org

I call it Linux/Gnu.
Without the kernel it wouldn't even boot.
--
Clive



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Once upon a time, Shibi <zzgraph@gmail.com> said:
> in my opinion Linux couldn't and still cannot exist without certain
> parts of gnu project including software and licenses, especially gcc,
> glibc

However, a significant portion of the development of gcc and glibc
(among many other GNU projects) over the last 20 years has come from the
Linux community. Without Linux, gcc and glibc would be very different
than they are today. Does that mean they should be renamed to Linux/GNU
CC and Linux/GNU libc? Nope, not at all.

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Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
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> However, a significant portion of the development of gcc and glibc
> (among many other GNU projects) over the last 20 years has come from the
> Linux community. Without Linux, gcc and glibc would be very different
> than they are today. Does that mean they should be renamed to Linux/GNU
> CC and Linux/GNU libc? Nope, not at all.
>
> --
who the hell ever suggested to change the name of the "kernel" as a
software to GNU/Linux that you suggest this to retaliate?
Suggested naming convention was invented by pioneers of Free Software
to show the role of GNU and free software philosophy in creation of a
free community-based "Operating System". they want to show OS (not
kernel) as a representer of Free Software.


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Shahab Shahsavari Alavidjeh
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> Suggested naming convention was invented by pioneers of Free Software
> to show the role of GNU and free software philosophy in creation of a
> free community-based "Operating System". they want to show OS (not
> kernel) as a representer of Free Software.

Free software is a good thirty years older than the FSF.

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I must confess that I really am much less informed than you about the
matter, I didn't know about "Mere aggregation of another independent
work with the Program" and I was just speaking about what I heard and
read about "delisenced kernel headers" in android.
> Free software is a good thirty years older than the FSF.
maybe I am wrong,
as I said before I'm not trying to convince people to use a exact
word, and I don't even use it myself usually. butt i try to say that
there may be a justification for that term. Maybe the restricted terms
of usage, redistribution and being open in gpl play a little part in
what linux is. maybe some codes that contributed back to the community
is owed to sticking with gpl. (I maybe some of advancements in linux
depends on GNU software.
or as you can say it was just a *happening* that even if it didn't
happened to linux the kernel had this popularity or even better.
(happening was not your exact word)
As a very unexperienced user of free software and fond of freedom,
unfortunately I disagree with you, there might be free software before
all these happenings in recent 20 years, but a legal document as
popular as gpl that strictly conveys freedom and prevent other parties
to abuse the freedom of sharing basic knowledge and codes and
experiences, and doesn't exist before gpl. and i think the name worth
to mention.
but maybe i'm wrong. maybe linux could be this popular if gpl didn't
happen to it, FreeBSD and OpenSSH is living, why not linux.



--
Shahab Shahsavari Alavidjeh
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شهاب شهسواری علویجه
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> work with the Program" and I was just speaking about what I heard and
> read about "delisenced kernel headers" in android.

Which is rubbish - beware of junk spouted by PR people involved in
lawsuits. The are paid to dissemble, deceived and damage.

> unfortunately I disagree with you, there might be free software before
> all these happenings in recent 20 years, but a legal document as
> popular as gpl that strictly conveys freedom and prevent other parties
> to abuse the freedom of sharing basic knowledge and codes and
> experiences, and doesn't exist before gpl. and i think the name worth
> to mention.

The GPL is very very important I agree - as you say it conveys and
defines many of the ideas, and describes the freedoms precisely. It's
also the beginning of the recognition that we need licences which block
content becoming non-free again, and from which all sorts of things such
as the Creative Commons spring.

In some ways to me that seems more important than the software bits.

Alan
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