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-   -   Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-user/686560-export-restrictions-legalese-fedora-scare-would-local-mirror.html)

Fernando Cassia 07-23-2012 01:41 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
Just got a reply from a local would-be mirror telling me they
discarded Fedora from the local Linux mirror lists because of the
"export restrictions"

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export
http://fedoraunity.org/export-restrictions

However, they carry Debian and CentOS, implying that the same
restrictions do not apply to those projects.

I think that is a silly excuse and that they´re full of s... as I
don´t see any fundamental differences between Fedora and CentOS...

Specially after reading
http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066853.html

Thoughts? Comments?

FC
PS: they´re a goverment-owned telecomms firm
http://mirrors.dcarsat.com.ar/ so they might be more paranoid to
legalese and fear of Uncle Sam getting after them (or us as a country)
if they don´t police access restrictions to the mirror site as per the
wishes of the us govt.
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Andy Blanchard 07-23-2012 02:22 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
I also call that they are full of it on grounds that they continue to host Debian and CentOS.* The question is whether "it" is just paranoia or something else...

Argentina (presumably your local mirror is hosted in the same geographic locale as their ccTLD) is not currently listed in the Export Administration
Regulations cited on the two pages you linked.* That means that their only grounds for doing this is that they fear that they may be, or already have been, used as a mirror by someone covered by the EAR and that they will incur the wrath of the US as a result.* Along with, presumably, every other Fedora mirror in the world that doesn't vet their downloads.


Also, as you point out, the EAR restrictions apply to both CentOS and Debian - indeed, Debian has a discussion on this very topic here, albeit a little dated:* http://www.debian.org/legal/cryptoinmain - I think the crypto export restrictions have now actually been lifted, but I'm not 100% sure on that.* The sole possible exception would be if there is a specific set of packages present in the default Fedora distro that are both not present in CentOS/Debian and subject to the export restrictions.* Maybe, having pointed out that they continue to host CentOS/Debian, you could request clarification of what makes them exempt and take it from there?


Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach!* Although I admire your efforts in establishing a local Argentinian mirror, I suspect this may just be a matter of time before you end up calling it a day and using an alternative mirror.


--
Andy

The only person to have all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

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Fernando Cassia 07-23-2012 02:28 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Andy Blanchard <zocalo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Maybe, having pointed out that they continue to host CentOS/Debian, you
> could request clarification of what makes them exempt and take it from
> there?
>
> Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not
> exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach! Although I
> admire your efforts in establishing a local Argentinian mirror, I suspect
> this may just be a matter of time before you end up calling it a day and
> using an alternative mirror.

My half-italian genes kicked in and I wrote a somewhat unpolite email
telling "oh rly?" ;) and pointing at export restrictions legalese in
the apache.org site too (that they mirror), along with the CentOS
discussion.

Result: he apologized and told me there would be a local mirror during
the week. :)
I also suggested them they could mirror it from Chilean or Brazilian
existing mirrors so there would be no connection to US based
servers...

Sometimes carrying a hatchet works. ;))
FC
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Fernando Cassia 07-23-2012 02:32 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Andy Blanchard <zocalo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not
> exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach!

we´ve lived it all... state owned monopoly (service sucks), privatized
monopoly (prices suck), and now the govt wants to become another
player alongside the private players (they´re building a national
fiber backbone reaching out places that the private sector never
covered, sort of mirroring the Australian NBN approach).

FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell
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Andy Blanchard 07-23-2012 02:45 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
Result: he apologized and told me there would be a local mirror during

the week. :)

I also suggested them they could mirror it from Chilean or Brazilian

existing mirrors so there would be no connection to US based

servers...


Bravo!* Have a Fedora Community Gold Star award!

OK, I made that
up, but personally getting a new mirror established in an area where
there are not a great deal to choose from in the first place at least
deserves some kind of honerable mention in Fedora Weekly News or some
such, IMHO.

--
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The only person to have all his work done by Friday was Robinson Crusoe

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"Paul W. Frields" 07-23-2012 03:00 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 10:41:55AM -0300, Fernando Cassia wrote:
> Just got a reply from a local would-be mirror telling me they
> discarded Fedora from the local Linux mirror lists because of the
> "export restrictions"
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export
> http://fedoraunity.org/export-restrictions
>
> However, they carry Debian and CentOS, implying that the same
> restrictions do not apply to those projects.
>
> I think that is a silly excuse and that they´re full of s... as I
> don´t see any fundamental differences between Fedora and CentOS...
>
> Specially after reading
> http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066853.html
>
> Thoughts? Comments?
>
> FC
> PS: they´re a goverment-owned telecomms firm
> http://mirrors.dcarsat.com.ar/ so they might be more paranoid to
> legalese and fear of Uncle Sam getting after them (or us as a country)
> if they don´t police access restrictions to the mirror site as per the
> wishes of the us govt.

Questions about the export restrictions should probably be posted to
the legal list instead:

legal@lists.fedoraproject.org
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/legal

--
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Fernando Cassia 07-23-2012 03:34 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Andy Blanchard <zocalo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bravo! Have a Fedora Community Gold Star award!
>
> OK, I made that up, but personally getting a new mirror established in an
> area where there are not a great deal to choose from in the first place at
> least deserves some kind of honerable mention in Fedora Weekly News or some
> such, IMHO.

Chasing sysadmins to get local mirrors has been a hobby of mine for
the last decade.
I started with Sun and its former "SunSite"... who told me 11 yrs ago
that they had donated a server for that purpose to UBA.ar university
but that they ended up repurposing the server for another project. (go
figure).

Then this year I contacted scientific body CONICET (whom host CentOS
mirrors at centos.mirror.mendoza-conicet.gob.ar) but they replied they
lacked enough bandwidth. Then I approached a local FTTH ISP
(http://www.phonevision.com.ar) whom first balked at the idea due to
disk space concerns. I later told them they could mirror just f16, f17
for a fraction of the total space using ´excludes´)... they were open
to the idea and forgot to follow-up with them...

So, let´s cross fingers and wait until ArSat does something... it´d be
very great news if they do.

I admit my interest is purely egotistical, as all I want is faster
downloads and installs from a local repo. ;)

FC
--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
- George Orwell
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Fernando Cassia 07-23-2012 03:35 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 12:00 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> Questions about the export restrictions should probably be posted to
> the legal list instead:
>
> legal@lists.fedoraproject.org
> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/legal

Thanks Paul.

Hopefully the issue has been solved. (the initial reluctance to host a
local mirror).

FC

--
During times of Universal Deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
Durante épocas de Engaño Universal, decir la verdad se convierte en un
Acto Revolucionario
- George Orwell
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jdow 07-23-2012 10:20 PM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
On 2012/07/23 07:32, Fernando Cassia wrote:

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 11:22 AM, Andy Blanchard<zocalo@gmail.com> wrote:

Alternatively, they *are* a telco, and a state-owned one at that - not
exactly a combination known for adopting a flexible approach!


we´ve lived it all... state owned monopoly (service sucks), privatized
monopoly (prices suck), and now the govt wants to become another
player alongside the private players (they´re building a national
fiber backbone reaching out places that the private sector never
covered, sort of mirroring the Australian NBN approach).

FC


Remember what the old saw said about Yankee traders that they'd sell you
the rope to hang them with? Well, if you think about it the Open Source
ethos is to give them that rope with the source and instructions to make
more rope. This strikes me as being just a skosh unwise.

{o.o}
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"Eddie O'Connor" 07-24-2012 01:24 AM

Export restrictions legalese in Fedora scare would-be local mirror
 
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Fernando Cassia <fcassia@gmail.com> wrote:

Just got a reply from a local would-be mirror telling me they

discarded Fedora from the local Linux mirror lists because of the

"export restrictions"



http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export

http://fedoraunity.org/export-restrictions



However, they carry Debian and CentOS, implying that the same

restrictions do not apply to those projects.



I think that is a silly excuse and that they´re full of s... as I

don´t see any fundamental differences between Fedora and CentOS...



Specially after reading

http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2008-October/066853.html



Thoughts? Comments?



FC

PS: they´re a goverment-owned telecomms firm

http://mirrors.dcarsat.com.ar/ so they might be more paranoid to

legalese and fear of Uncle Sam getting after them (or us as a country)

if they don´t police access restrictions to the mirror site as per the

wishes of the us govt.

--

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If anything it's their loss...they'll just miss out on helping to spread a well-known and widely used OS that is truly free of charge.....



EGO II


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