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Old 07-29-2012, 02:27 AM
"Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I"
 
Default F17 takes so long to reboot/poweroff

On 07/25/2012 12:10 PM, Richard Vickery
wrote:



On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Reindl
Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net>
wrote:






Am 24.07.2012 19:39, schrieb Richard
Vickery:

> Why do you need to reboot? What are you
doing at power-off that you need to hang around and wait for
it? If a

> portable computer, just close it, pack it away before
the lights go out, and walk away? and is a minute and 38

> seconds really SO important? If this minuscule amount
time is so important, you could retire and get more of your

> minute and a half.




strange argumentation



it does not matter WHY someone reboots a machine

nor is not reboot a solution for any problem



rebooting a remote-machine after updates which is not

important enough to set up remote KVM as example is

not funny if you have to wait a long time without feedback








My point here is taken out of out of its context: it was not
rebooting I was concerned about, but that the world is not going
to end in a minute and a half. Included in my concern were many
things: one was to get someone with more knowledge than I to
help this gentleman - I have stated before that I am a political
scientist, not a real one (sorry if I offend any other political
scientists here, that is not my purpose); another concern is
that when I used MS stuff, I was concerned and fearful about a
longer wait periods because of their crashing occurrences, and
in Linux waiting is no big deal because Linux does what it is
supposed to do versus MS Windows which teaches an individual to
freak out when the computer does something like that in
question; another concern is that I am, and cannot un-become
over-night, nor would I want to, a qigong master who doesn't
worry about time - and this is why mine is, as Harald says, a
"strange argument"; everything the qigong practitioner is, is
strange to those who don't practice.



Best regards,






I too would be concerned with a long shut-down time.....only
because, as stated before when using Windows the longer an
application or computer takes to shut down could mean all KINDS of
things are taking place that are unknown to the user. From viruses
and trojan files being installed......to the hard drive being
deleted a byte at a time. If there's one thing I've learned to do
with Linux it's that every two weeks I run BleachBit and this seems
to keep my system pretty fast. Shutdowns and startups are quick, and
free of glitches. I'm running Fedora 16 on a 32 bit 3GM memory
laptop and for what I need it to do....it's pretty fast. I'm in the
process of upgrading my hardware to 64-bit, and I'm wondering just
how much more of an increase in speed that will give my system, when
I go to Fedora 17.....and this is in addition to making sure my
Firewall is on and working!





EGO II



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Old 07-29-2012, 02:32 AM
David
 
Default F17 takes so long to reboot/poweroff

On 7/28/2012 10:27 PM, Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I wrote:
>
> On 07/25/2012 12:10 PM, Richard Vickery wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 1:35 AM, Reindl Harald
>> <h.reindl@thelounge.net <mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 24.07.2012 19 <tel:24.07.2012%2019>:39, schrieb Richard
>> Vickery:
>>> Why do you need to reboot? What are you doing at power-off that
>> you need to hang around and wait for it? If a
>>> portable computer, just close it, pack it away before the lights
>> go out, and walk away? and is a minute and 38
>>> seconds really SO important? If this minuscule amount time is so
>> important, you could retire and get more of your
>>> minute and a half.
>>
>> strange argumentation
>>
>> it does not matter WHY someone reboots a machine nor is not reboot
>> a solution for any problem
>>
>> rebooting a remote-machine after updates which is not important
>> enough to set up remote KVM as example is not funny if you have to
>> wait a long time without feedback
>>
>>
>> My point here is taken out of out of its context: it was not
>> rebooting I was concerned about, but that the world is not going to
>> end in a minute and a half. Included in my concern were many
>> things: one was to get someone with more knowledge than I to help
>> this gentleman - I have stated before that I am a political
>> scientist, not a real one (sorry if I offend any other political
>> scientists here, that is not my purpose); another concern is that
>> when I used MS stuff, I was concerned and fearful about a longer
>> wait periods because of their crashing occurrences, and in Linux
>> waiting is no big deal because Linux does what it is supposed to do
>> versus MS Windows which teaches an individual to freak out when the
>> computer does something like that in question; another concern is
>> that I am, and cannot un-become over-night, nor would I want to, a
>> qigong master who doesn't worry about time - and this is why mine
>> is, as Harald says, a "strange argument"; everything the qigong
>> practitioner is, is strange to those who don't practice.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>>
> I too would be concerned with a long shut-down time.....only because,
> as stated before when using Windows the longer an application or
> computer takes to shut down could mean all KINDS of things are taking
> place that are unknown to the user. From viruses and trojan files
> being installed......to the hard drive being deleted a byte at a
> time. If there's one thing I've learned to do with Linux it's that
> every two weeks I run BleachBit and this seems to keep my system
> pretty fast. Shutdowns and startups are quick, and free of glitches.
> I'm running Fedora 16 on a 32 bit 3GM memory laptop and for what I
> need it to do....it's pretty fast. I'm in the process of upgrading my
> hardware to 64-bit, and I'm wondering just how much more of an
> increase in speed that will give my system, when I go to Fedora
> 17.....and this is in addition to making sure my Firewall is on and
> working!
>
>
> EGO II
>
>


"the longer an application or computer takes to shut down could mean all
KINDS of things are taking place..."?

Really? References? Documentation? Facts? Instead of 'What I think I
know' and can not prove.
--

David
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Old 07-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Tim
 
Default F17 takes so long to reboot/poweroff

On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 22:27 -0400, Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I wrote:
> I too would be concerned with a long shut-down time.....only because,
> as stated before when using Windows the longer an application or
> computer takes to shut down could mean all KINDS of things are taking
> place that are unknown to the user. From viruses and trojan files
> being installed......to the hard drive being deleted a byte at a time.
> If there's one thing I've learned to do with Linux it's that every two
> weeks I run BleachBit and this seems to keep my system pretty fast.

Sounds more tin-foil-hat paranoia than just cautious computing.

My main concerns with computers that take too long to shutdown are that
it wastes my time, and it's far more likely that the computer is going
to have the power abruptly disconnected, to put an end to it, when
patience is finally exhausted.

It's usually caused, here, by things like a hard drive has fallen asleep
some time ago, and the computer insists on waking it up again before it
will shut down. If you investigate a bit, it's quite clear that the
hard drive was synced up long ago (that's how it's managed to stay
asleep for an hour, or so), and the computer could have just ignored it
during shutdown. I dare say that the situation is the same with other
power managed devices (them being a cause of shutdown pauses and halts,
and unnecessary wake-up attempts).

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 07-29-2012, 02:01 PM
Tim
 
Default F17 takes so long to reboot/poweroff

On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 22:27 -0400, Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I wrote:
> I run BleachBit and this seems to ...

And, for what it's worth, I'm always highly wary of using any third
party tool to maintain a system. Quite apart from the fact that there's
been various Windows things that claim to improve things, but just make
them worse, or are outright malware. There's the issue of the
application lagging behind the design of your system. As soon as
there's a change to how your system does something that it will
interfere with, you've either got to wait for it to catch up with the
new way of doing it, or risk it stuffing up your system.

Webmin and LinuxConf are two things that I've experienced them balls-up
a Linux installation, long ago. So it's not just a Windows issue.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.25-78.2.56.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



--
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Old 08-01-2012, 07:12 AM
sguazt
 
Default F17 takes so long to reboot/poweroff

On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Tim <ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 22:27 -0400, Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I wrote:
>> I run BleachBit and this seems to ...
>
> And, for what it's worth, I'm always highly wary of using any third
> party tool to maintain a system. Quite apart from the fact that there's
> been various Windows things that claim to improve things, but just make
> them worse, or are outright malware. There's the issue of the
> application lagging behind the design of your system. As soon as
> there's a change to how your system does something that it will
> interfere with, you've either got to wait for it to catch up with the
> new way of doing it, or risk it stuffing up your system.
>
> Webmin and LinuxConf are two things that I've experienced them balls-up
> a Linux installation, long ago. So it's not just a Windows issue.
>

Dear all,

at last I've found the source of problem.

It is fail2ban (an application which "bans IPs that make too many
password failures", that I use for SSH attacks).
It takes a very large amount of time to stop.
In fact, without it, F17 shutdown/reboot in few seconds.

Now, I probably submit a bug for fail2ban (in F16, it worked OK)

Thanks to all for the very helpful hints

Best,

-- Marco
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:59 AM
sguazt
 
Default F17 takes so long to reboot/poweroff

On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 9:12 AM, sguazt <marco.guazzone@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 4:01 PM, Tim <ignored_mailbox@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>> On Sat, 2012-07-28 at 22:27 -0400, Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I wrote:
>>> I run BleachBit and this seems to ...
>>
>> And, for what it's worth, I'm always highly wary of using any third
>> party tool to maintain a system. Quite apart from the fact that there's
>> been various Windows things that claim to improve things, but just make
>> them worse, or are outright malware. There's the issue of the
>> application lagging behind the design of your system. As soon as
>> there's a change to how your system does something that it will
>> interfere with, you've either got to wait for it to catch up with the
>> new way of doing it, or risk it stuffing up your system.
>>
>> Webmin and LinuxConf are two things that I've experienced them balls-up
>> a Linux installation, long ago. So it's not just a Windows issue.
>>
>
> Dear all,
>
> at last I've found the source of problem.
>
> It is fail2ban (an application which "bans IPs that make too many
> password failures", that I use for SSH attacks).
> It takes a very large amount of time to stop.
> In fact, without it, F17 shutdown/reboot in few seconds.
>
> Now, I probably submit a bug for fail2ban (in F16, it worked OK)

For the ones interested, I've submitted a new bug:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=844911

Cheers,

-- Marco
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