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Old 07-07-2012, 01:14 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

Am 07.07.2012 14:51, schrieb Frank Murphy:
> On 07/07/12 13:48, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>>> there is a big enough market with customers which will
>>>> make the pressure to the manufacturers to produce
>>>> recent hardware where you can urn off secure boot
>>>
>>> Verified Statistics please?
>>
>> BUSINESS CUSTOMERS
>
> Not an answer.

surely

>>>> do you really think vendors like HP would be stoopid enough
>>>> to ignore their business customers? and yes the business
>>>> machines have much better quality and are not too expensive
>>>> or in many cases cheaper than the customer-crap most people
>>>> buy
>>>
>>> How many Fedora users, buy Business servers?
>>
>> Fedora is NOT relevant
>
> see _below_

there are not only 19" servers in the world!

if HP stops to satisfy my workstation-needs i
would by also any server-hardware from another
vendor - with virtualization on vSphere nothing easier
than taht without interrupt any service

>> the point is that business-customers hardly needing to
>> install they os and platforms which are needed for their
>> business
>>
>> so this inculudes NAY free operating system not only Fedora
>>
> The tread is about _Fedora_

you refuse to understand what i am saying

Fedora is NOT relevant because the point is how to run
ANY FREE operating system (Linux, BSD, OpenSolaris, Whatever)

so NO microsoft is not in any position to control the x86 market
if they try federal commissions and the european union are the
first rember them on their own history (maybe you are not aware of
because too young)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

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Old 07-07-2012, 02:47 PM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

On 07/07/12 14:14, Reindl Harald wrote:







The tread is about _Fedora_


you refuse to understand what i am saying

Fedora is NOT relevant because the point is how to run
ANY FREE operating system (Linux, BSD, OpenSolaris, Whatever)


To you maybe:
The OP asked as per Subject:Fedora 18 and UEFI

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Old 07-07-2012, 03:10 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

Am 07.07.2012 16:47, schrieb Frank Murphy:
> On 07/07/12 14:14, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>> The tread is about _Fedora_
>>
>> you refuse to understand what i am saying
>>
>> Fedora is NOT relevant because the point is how to run
>> ANY FREE operating system (Linux, BSD, OpenSolaris, Whatever)
>
> To you maybe:
> The OP asked as per Subject:Fedora 18 and UEFI

what does the topic change in teh fact that UEFI is not
a Fedora only topic nor can Fedora over the long go
it's own wy beside any other distribution or free OS

nor is microsoft in the position to lock down x86
but that was explained many times



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Old 07-07-2012, 03:37 PM
Antonio Olivares
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

> so NO microsoft is not in any position to control the x86
> market
> if they try federal commissions and the european union are
> the
> first rember them on their own history (maybe you are not
^(remember)
> aware of
> because too young)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft
>
> --

There were cases ***but*** nothing ever happened to Micro$oft. They still continued to win. They apparently focused on making the secure boot in UEFI their way to cast out Open Source OSes from booting without a key or disable the secure boot thing. If things sadly continue in decline with regards to SCOTUS, anything can happen see (1), (2) and (3) and in case the bad times(economic) continue then (4) may happen and then they (EU) will not be able to stop it from happening

Regards,


Antonio


(1) Patriot Act
(2) NDAA
(3) ObamaCare
(4) Fall of Euro(nationalization again, dissolution of European nations, all going back to their old currencies(monies), British pound, Italian lira, French frank, Spain peseta, German mark, ..., etc. The economic crisis could cause all of this to collapse and the bailouts of Greece, Spain, ..., etc. Sooner or later it can bust so who will stop M$ from doing whatever they want?
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:08 AM
"Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I"
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

On 07/07/2012 11:37 AM, Antonio Olivares wrote:

so NO microsoft is not in any position to control the x86
market
if they try federal commissions and the european union are
the
first rember them on their own history (maybe you are not

^(remember)

aware of
because too young)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

--

There were cases ***but*** nothing ever happened to Micro$oft. They still continued to win. They apparently focused on making the secure boot in UEFI their way to cast out Open Source OSes from booting without a key or disable the secure boot thing. If things sadly continue in decline with regards to SCOTUS, anything can happen see (1), (2) and (3) and in case the bad times(economic) continue then (4) may happen and then they (EU) will not be able to stop it from happening

Regards,


Antonio


(1) Patriot Act
(2) NDAA
(3) ObamaCare
(4) Fall of Euro(nationalization again, dissolution of European nations, all going back to their old currencies(monies), British pound, Italian lira, French frank, Spain peseta, German mark, ..., etc. The economic crisis could cause all of this to collapse and the bailouts of Greece, Spain, ..., etc. Sooner or later it can bust so who will stop M$ from doing whatever they want?


In a perfect world the PEOPLE would stop Microsoft! We've seen it in
history time & time again, the masses get to "that point" of having had
ENOUGH!....and they proceed to do what NEEDS to be done to set the
imbalance of the order of things back in order! Whether this means a
boycott, a petition, or something more drastic (vandalism, destruction
of property etc.) SOMETHING gets done UNTIL the "idiots-in-charge"
finally get the picture and change the policy or what-have-you to
something that all can live with and abide by!



EGO II
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:13 AM
Roger
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

My opinion.
<snip>
so NO microsoft is not in any position to control the x86 market
</snip>

I have been watching this thread with interest.
Conversation to date raises, for me, a number of points.

1. None of this would be necessary if Microsoft produced quality, secure
operating systems in the first instance.
Microsoft caused Linux to happen. Linux would not be bane of their
existence, it may never even have existed in it's current form/s were it
not for denial, refusal and incessant greed on their part. They have
only themselves to blame and squirming as with Secureboot seems just that.


2. Being very concerned about competition. Microsoft has to eliminate it
or at least make attempts to do so.


3. Microsoft seem to be grasping at straws, seemingly fully backed by
the Administration.


4. Users neither know or care, they buy a computer, it has windows, end
of discussion.


5. <quote> Linux is scary, no one uses it anyway. I can't use any of my
programs on it"</endquote>


6. Microsoft doesn't need to care about the x86 market, as long as they
can clandestinely, over time, eliminate use of other operating systems
(except for Apple). To me the Verisign discussion so far, seems only a
first step toward the goal of killing off the flies buzzing round the
poo pile that Microsoft plays in.


They can't control Open Source so want boot locked down or out,
depending on one's point of view. In saying this I admit no knowledge
of Secureboot or Verisign.

A question I would be asking is what could be their next step.
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Old 07-08-2012, 05:52 AM
"Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I"
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

On 07/08/2012 01:13 AM, Roger wrote:

My opinion.
<snip>
so NO microsoft is not in any position to control the x86 market
</snip>

I have been watching this thread with interest.
Conversation to date raises, for me, a number of points.

1. None of this would be necessary if Microsoft produced quality,
secure operating systems in the first instance.
Microsoft caused Linux to happen. Linux would not be bane of their
existence, it may never even have existed in it's current form/s were
it not for denial, refusal and incessant greed on their part. They
have only themselves to blame and squirming as with Secureboot seems
just that.


2. Being very concerned about competition. Microsoft has to eliminate
it or at least make attempts to do so.


3. Microsoft seem to be grasping at straws, seemingly fully backed by
the Administration.


4. Users neither know or care, they buy a computer, it has windows,
end of discussion.


5. <quote> Linux is scary, no one uses it anyway. I can't use any of
my programs on it"</endquote>


6. Microsoft doesn't need to care about the x86 market, as long as
they can clandestinely, over time, eliminate use of other operating
systems (except for Apple). To me the Verisign discussion so far,
seems only a first step toward the goal of killing off the flies
buzzing round the poo pile that Microsoft plays in.


They can't control Open Source so want boot locked down or out,
depending on one's point of view. In saying this I admit no knowledge
of Secureboot or Verisign.

A question I would be asking is what could be their next step.
I would question not what their next step is...but what their ultimate
goal is! I can't possibly believe that they spend the money they don on
just taking out "little 'ol Linux"....threre's GOT to be some grand
design-master plan that they're not going to divulge until the very end!
I think this while it might look scary at first for the Open Source
community,...might end up actually being a good thing. The same way when
Windows came out and had all it's licenses and product keys, the people
who didn't want to go that route opted for Linux and the open source,
this could lead to a whole new era, or users who can actually bypass and
hack the secure boot mess!....Imagine it...a group of like 13 year olds
talking about how they got past the UEFI on a current model ultra book
with just a few lines of code!...LoL!...I know...far fetched...but
hey....you never know!...



EGO II

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Old 07-08-2012, 08:12 AM
Roger
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

On 08/07/12 15:52, Eddie G.O'Connor Jr-I wrote:

On 07/08/2012 01:13 AM, Roger wrote:

My opinion.
<snip>
so NO microsoft is not in any position to control the x86 market
</snip>

I have been watching this thread with interest.
Conversation to date raises, for me, a number of points.

1. None of this would be necessary if Microsoft produced quality,
secure operating systems in the first instance.
Microsoft caused Linux to happen. Linux would not be bane of their
existence, it may never even have existed in it's current form/s were
it not for denial, refusal and incessant greed on their part. They
have only themselves to blame and squirming as with Secureboot seems
just that.


2. Being very concerned about competition. Microsoft has to eliminate
it or at least make attempts to do so.


3. Microsoft seem to be grasping at straws, seemingly fully backed
by the Administration.


4. Users neither know or care, they buy a computer, it has windows,
end of discussion.


5. <quote> Linux is scary, no one uses it anyway. I can't use any of
my programs on it"</endquote>


6. Microsoft doesn't need to care about the x86 market, as long as
they can clandestinely, over time, eliminate use of other operating
systems (except for Apple). To me the Verisign discussion so far,
seems only a first step toward the goal of killing off the flies
buzzing round the poo pile that Microsoft plays in.


They can't control Open Source so want boot locked down or out,
depending on one's point of view. In saying this I admit no
knowledge of Secureboot or Verisign.

A question I would be asking is what could be their next step.
I would question not what their next step is...but what their ultimate
goal is! I can't possibly believe that they spend the money they don
on just taking out "little 'ol Linux"....threre's GOT to be some grand
design-master plan that they're not going to divulge until the very
end! I think this while it might look scary at first for the Open
Source community,...might end up actually being a good thing. The same
way when Windows came out and had all it's licenses and product keys,
the people who didn't want to go that route opted for Linux and the
open source, this could lead to a whole new era, or users who can
actually bypass and hack the secure boot mess!....Imagine it...a group
of like 13 year olds talking about how they got past the UEFI on a
current model ultra book with just a few lines of code!...LoL!...I
know...far fetched...but hey....you never know!...



EGO II

Maybe a goal could be total ownership of the world's operating system.
Absolute control over what is installed and by whom, much the same as
Apple.


You mentioned licenses and product keys, Linux somewhat stymied that for
those wise enough to see and act. To eliminate Linux or at the very
lease make it incredibly difficult to install goes a long way to fixing
that problem. Microsoft knows that people are lazy, and like sheep,
follow well worn trails.


I'm thinking that Cloud may be a reason. To dominate and rent out time
to use applications which can never be downloaded or installed but nets
Billions of Dollars a month for very little work, maybe that's not fantasy.


Untold millions would have to have their credit card details with a
single entity, Microsoft, so that automatic removal of app rental fees
from banks across the globe would be simple.
Imagine what that database would be worth and if ownership changed,
Microsoft were taken over, if their security were hacked.
Imagine that they could simply hike their rental fees at will, no law on
earth could stop them.


I am hoping that our Linux Devs can come up with ways to mitigate such
endeavours.


Science fiction of a few years ago is fact now.
Roger


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Old 07-08-2012, 09:09 AM
Heinz Diehl
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

On 08.07.2012, Roger wrote:

> Microsoft caused Linux to happen.

Linus Torvalds caused Linux to happen, as a hobby and being
disappointed with minix..

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Old 07-08-2012, 09:22 AM
Roger
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI onlist

On 08/07/12 19:09, Heinz Diehl wrote:

On 08.07.2012, Roger wrote:


Microsoft caused Linux to happen.

Linus Torvalds caused Linux to happen, as a hobby and being
disappointed with minix..


Oops. Soribouthat.
Roger

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