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Old 07-07-2012, 07:57 AM
Kevin Wilson
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

Hi, everyone,
I have a question about UEFI in fedora 18: I see in lwn.net article:

"Fedora's strategy is to enroll in Microsoft's developer program,
which allows the project to purchase an approved $99 key through
Verisign, a key which will be recognized by UEFI secure boot. The key
will be used to sign the shim bootloader, which is a "trivial UEFI
first-stage bootloader" whose only job is to boot GRUB2. Fedora will
also sign the GRUB2 bootloader and the kernel, although the latter two
binaries can be signed with the Fedora project's own keys.

see
http://lwn.net/Articles/503803
That this means that from F18 on, fedora will cost 99$ for every installation?

rgs,
Kevin
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:07 AM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

On 07/07/12 08:57, Kevin Wilson wrote:

see
http://lwn.net/Articles/503803
That this means that from F18 on, fedora will cost 99$ for every installation?



Discussion on fedora-devel is still ongoing:
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/167732.html

But from what I gather,
the fedoraproject as vendor,
will pay Microsoft who will provide a signing service.

The fedora end-use will pay nothing.
But read the thread for the to and fro.

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Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"


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Old 07-07-2012, 08:08 AM
Kevin Wilson
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

Hi,
Than a lot for your quick answer!
kevin
On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 11:07 AM, Frank Murphy <frankly3d@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 07/07/12 08:57, Kevin Wilson wrote:
>>
>> see
>> http://lwn.net/Articles/503803
>> That this means that from F18 on, fedora will cost 99$ for every
>> installation?
>>
>
> Discussion on fedora-devel is still ongoing:
> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2012-June/167732.html
>
> But from what I gather,
> the fedoraproject as vendor,
> will pay Microsoft who will provide a signing service.
>
> The fedora end-use will pay nothing.
> But read the thread for the to and fro.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Frank
> "Jack of all, fubars"
>
>
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> users@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Old 07-07-2012, 08:30 AM
Hakan Koseoglu
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

Kevin,
On 7 July 2012 08:57, Kevin Wilson <wkevils@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://lwn.net/Articles/503803
> That this means that from F18 on, fedora will cost 99$ for every installation?
As I understand it, it's a one-off $99 payment for the dev portal
access for the signing service, in the end actual money goes to the
certificate authority but I can't remember which one. It is a decision
I dislike but it is not 99 per installation nor any costs are passed
to end-users.
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:02 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

On 07/07/2012 02:00 PM, Hakan Koseoglu wrote:
> Kevin,
> On 7 July 2012 08:57, Kevin Wilson <wkevils@gmail.com> wrote:
>> http://lwn.net/Articles/503803
>> That this means that from F18 on, fedora will cost 99$ for every installation?
> As I understand it, it's a one-off $99 payment for the dev portal
> access for the signing service, in the end actual money goes to the
> certificate authority but I can't remember which one. It is a decision
> I dislike but it is not 99 per installation nor any costs are passed
> to end-users.

Certificate authority is Verisign and this is purely between Red Hat and
the vendor. There is no money charged for users. Users will never be
asked to pay money to install or use Fedora.

Rahul
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Old 07-07-2012, 10:21 AM
suvayu ali
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

Hi Rahul,


On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid@gmail.com> wrote:
> Certificate authority is Verisign and this is purely between Red Hat and
> the vendor. There is no money charged for users. Users will never be
> asked to pay money to install or use Fedora.

I am more worried about "free" as in freedom. I don't quite grasp the
implications as an end user. For example consider the following
scenarios.

Can I freely choose to use proprietary (or for that matter alternative
free) drivers for my hardware from whatever source I prefer?

A few years back I was in a situation where my USB Wi-Fi dongle was not
yet supported by Fedora and I had to get the binary blob firmware from
the linux kernel wireless page and manually install and load it by hand
to use my hardware. Will I be able to do that with ease in the future?

Similarly, can I choose to install proprietary drivers or kernel modules
not distributed with Fedora from what ever source I wish (RPMFusion,
Vendor etc.)?

I realise I can turn Secure Boot off, but hardware manufacturers have
often dropped the ball on complying with standards. What if the next
generation of motherboards/laptops make it harder to turn off secure
boot? Just to make it clear, the questions above are not rhetorical. I
just want to understand better the implications as an end-user.

--
Suvayu

Open source is the future. It sets us free.
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Old 07-07-2012, 11:58 AM
Itamar Reis Peixoto
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 7:21 AM, suvayu ali <fatkasuvayu+linux@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I realise I can turn Secure Boot off, but hardware manufacturers have
> often dropped the ball on complying with standards. What if the next
> generation of motherboards/laptops make it harder to turn off secure
> boot? Just to make it clear, the questions above are not rhetorical. I
> just want to understand better the implications as an end-user.
>


I think we are bigger enough to say no and buy only hardware compatible.


--
------------

Itamar Reis Peixoto
msn, google talk: itamar@ispbrasil.com.br
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Old 07-07-2012, 12:19 PM
Frank Murphy
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

On 07/07/12 12:58, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:


I think we are bigger enough to say no and buy only hardware compatible.



Not my first choice.
Been left with Old hardware as only option no thanks.
I think Linux is pragmatic, rather than dogmatic.


--
Regards,
Frank
"Jack of all, fubars"


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Old 07-07-2012, 12:30 PM
Heinz Diehl
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

On 07.07.2012, suvayu ali wrote:

> Can I freely choose to use proprietary (or for that matter alternative
> free) drivers for my hardware from whatever source I prefer?

As long as you use UEFI/secure boot, your driver has to be signed.
So you have to build and deploy your own keypair/signatures on your whole
system. Alternatively, you could switch off secure boot, if you have
hardware which allows this.

> A few years back I was in a situation where my USB Wi-Fi dongle was not
> yet supported by Fedora and I had to get the binary blob firmware from
> the linux kernel wireless page and manually install and load it by hand
> to use my hardware. Will I be able to do that with ease in the future?

Both your kernel and your drivers have to be signed. See above.

> Similarly, can I choose to install proprietary drivers or kernel modules
> not distributed with Fedora from what ever source I wish (RPMFusion,
> Vendor etc.)?

See above.

> I realise I can turn Secure Boot off, but hardware manufacturers have
> often dropped the ball on complying with standards. What if the next
> generation of motherboards/laptops make it harder to turn off secure
> boot?

Then you're f*cked up and HAVE to build your own keys and re-sign
your whole system.

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Old 07-07-2012, 12:34 PM
Reindl Harald
 
Default Fedora 18 and UEFI

Am 07.07.2012 14:19, schrieb Frank Murphy:
> On 07/07/12 12:58, Itamar Reis Peixoto wrote:
>>
>> I think we are bigger enough to say no and buy only hardware compatible.
>>
> Not my first choice.
> Been left with Old hardware as only option no thanks.

who said that?

there is a big enough market with customers which will
make the pressure to the manufacturers to produce
recent hardware where you can urn off secure boot

do you really think vendors like HP would be stoopid enough
to ignore their business customers? and yes the business
machines have much better quality and are not too expensive
or in many cases cheaper than the customer-crap most people
buy

http://www8.hp.com/de/de/products/desktops/product-detail.html?oid=5037949
a year ago with the SPECS below: 1600 €

it is the choice of the customer buy cheapest crap and pray
your OS will run fine or buy good hardware and that will not change

these days you can have this machine even with a HP branded
debian setup pre-installed
______________________

* Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600 CPU @ 3.40GHz
* 16 GB RAM
* 2x4 TB Disk

00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family DRAM Controller (rev 09)
00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200/2nd Generation Core Processor Family PCI Express Root Port (rev 09)
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics
Controller (rev 09)
00:19.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82579LM Gigabit Network Connection (rev 04)
00:1a.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller #2 (rev 04)
00:1b.0 Audio device: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family High Definition Audio Controller (rev 04)
00:1c.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 1 (rev b4)
00:1c.4 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 5 (rev b4)
00:1c.6 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 7 (rev b4)
00:1c.7 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family PCI Express Root Port 8 (rev b4)
00:1d.0 USB Controller: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller #1 (rev 04)
00:1e.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge (rev a4)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge: Intel Corporation Q67 Express Chipset Family LPC Controller (rev 04)
00:1f.2 SATA controller: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family 6 port SATA AHCI Controller (rev 04)
00:1f.3 SMBus: Intel Corporation 6 Series/C200 Series Chipset Family SMBus Controller (rev 04)
01:00.0 Ethernet controller: Intel Corporation 82574L Gigabit Network Connection
02:00.0 USB Controller: NEC Corporation uPD720200 USB 3.0 Host Controller (rev 03)
03:00.0 Network controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR5008 Wireless Network Adapter (rev 01


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